Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#41

Post by haswell » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:12 PM UTC

ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

Working at a SV company that recently instituted an unlimited vacation policy, I can't agree more.

This is probably an indication of other issues, but half of the team didn't realize there was a new policy, one team lead thought the guidance was "generally, this means about 3 weeks", the manager thought "generally, this means about 2 weeks", the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks".

It apparently simplifies things from a financial standpoint - not having PTO on the books, etc. but I'm of the opinion that it's a very anti-employee policy.

Edit: I very much agree with the "unlimited with a minimum" concept mentioned in the sibling comment. Without something like this, it's hard to see the policy as a real perk.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#42

Post by ryoshu » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:12 PM UTC

Yakimoto wrote: post #34

ryoshu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a newborn is not a year long vacation. While it's possible that some employees could abuse a year of maternity/paternity leave by quitting after the one year term, I imagine this move will greatly increase company loyalty amongst new, potential and existing parents.

Having a newborn isn't a task put against you. You elected for it. Don't perpetuate the idea that some credit is owed to parents as if it's not a year long vacation.

Nowhere did I say it was a task put against you or that something is owed to parents. This is a perk being offered by the company, just like free lunches or monthly team outings.

It's a very attractive perk for couples looking to have a family and will like engender loyalty within that cohort.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#43

Post by Dylan16807 » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:14 PM UTC

adrice727 wrote: post #8

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #2

"With this in mind, today we’re introducing an unlimited leave policy for new moms and dads that allows them to take off as much time as they want during the first year after a child’s birth or adoption" Ah, unlimited for a year. So no taking 30 years off after your child is born then.

There's always a catch.

That's not a catch. This is unlimited maternity and paternity leave. If you don't have a new child it's not maternity and paternity leave anymore, it's just leave.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#44

Post by bpicolo » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:17 PM UTC

haswell wrote: post #41

ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

Working at a SV company that recently instituted an unlimited vacation policy, I can't agree more. This is probably an indication of other issues, but half of the team didn't realize there was a new policy, one team lead thought the guidance was "generally, this means about 3 weeks", the manager thought "generally, this means about 2 weeks", the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks". It apparentl…

"the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks"

Sounds like they should just make it 20 days.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#45

Post by jfb » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:18 PM UTC

j2bax wrote: post #32

rayiner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems that one could say "See you next year" with this and get a year-long vacation. LOL. Going to work is a vacation compared to taking care of an infant.

Dad of 11 month old. Can confirm.

Dad of six week old. Laughs hollowly at the OP.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#46

Post by wilg » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:20 PM UTC

rezistik wrote: post #24

ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

I think unlimited with a minimum is really the solution. Without a minimum people are reluctant to take time off from what I've seen and read.

I agree.

Though, where I work we have unlimited vacation and there definitely seems to be peer encouragement to take _more_ vacation, not less.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#47

Post by haswell » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:20 PM UTC

bpicolo wrote: post #44

haswell wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working at a SV company that recently instituted an unlimited vacation policy, I can't agree more. This is probably an indication of other issues, but half of the team didn't realize there was a new policy, one team lead thought the guidance was "generally, this means about 3 weeks", the manager thought "generally, this means about 2 weeks", the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks". It apparentl…

"the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks" Sounds like they should just make it 20 days.

Agreed. I'm not sure if similar "unlimited" policies typically give a "generally this means" kind of statement, but it seems to nullify the point of such a policy right off the bat.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#48

Post by michaelchisari » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:21 PM UTC

rezistik wrote: post #24

ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

I think unlimited with a minimum is really the solution. Without a minimum people are reluctant to take time off from what I've seen and read.

I've seen places that have that minimum be mandatory. As in, if you haven't taken a vacation by a certain time, they will insist, even go so far as restricting access until the vacation is over.

The great thing about a mandatory minimum (never thought I'd be saying those words), is that it doesn't allow someone to over work themselves into a frenzy, making everyone else look lazy, while simultaneously burning themselves out.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#49

Post by danudey » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:26 PM UTC

caoilte wrote: post #10

Unlimited leave policies encourage employees to self-police and conform to peer pressure. At a place like Netflix I can imagine the result being that people end up taking less than the industry average. A better gimmick would be if Netflix picked one of the Nordics and announced that they were going to adopt all of the social policies provided by that country's government.

> I can imagine the result being that people end up taking less than the industry average

The industry average in the US is abysmal though. Yahoo 'doubled' theirs to 16 weeks, which is 1/3 of Canada's (and many other countries') legally mandated minimum. Taking double the industry average would still be abysmal by global standards.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#50

Post by ghughes » Tue, Aug 04, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

wilg wrote: post #46

rezistik wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think unlimited with a minimum is really the solution. Without a minimum people are reluctant to take time off from what I've seen and read.

I agree. Though, where I work we have unlimited vacation and there definitely seems to be peer encouragement to take _more_ vacation, not less.

I'd expect it to work much better when there's an unlimited vacation policy from the start and the founders make a determined effort to push the culture in that direction.