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Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

larsfaye.com

391–400 of 574 posts

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#391
I hate to day this, but most coding work isn't hard at all - for a human or AI. There are a lot of important skills around coding, but for most people, much of the time, they are not doing any coding that is particularly challenging, difficult, it novel.

If you have a truly hard problem - sure write some code or take a hybrid approach. Still, let's not pretend this is what most people are tasked with.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#392

when the tool becomes a crutch you end up with a limp. at work, i can tell that people are not thinking and losing the ability to thinking hard. I keep coming back to what LLMs "really" are. Recursive autocomplete, it keeps choosing the best fit for the next token. This really demystifies it for me. It also reinforces that is not "reasoning", so there's no hidden mental model.

>at work, i can tell that people are not thinking and losing the ability to thinking hard. its also wild how quickly and willingly many people handed this over. the apathy and desire for connivence runs extremely deep among my coworkers. we are at the point where people are not even running their local dev servers and clicking around to ensure their work is functionality correct, they just ingest the ticket, dump it…

reminds of college when everyone would use chegg, but knew it was a shortcut.

the difference now is it is shamelessly encouraged.

one interesting topic is code reviews of AI code. code reviews have always been a bottleneck on the team and there's lots of trust and rubber stamping. I don't believe people are reading the code they ship.

I will say that it is a beautiful tool if you turn it on its head. if you don't quite understand something, it will never tire of answering your questions. It is a great time to need handholding.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boris: "I don't prompt Claude anymore. I have loops prompting Claude and figuring what to do". Boris: "I haven’t written a line of code by hand in, I think, eight months now… Claude Code, 100% written by Claude Code". Boris: "There’s no manually written code anywhere at the company… All of the SQL is written by models. Everything is just built by the models... Claude instances communicate with each other (e.g., over…

Judging by how it feels being a customer and using their products, I can confidently say: 1. Yes, we know, and can tell. 2. No, they haven't figured out anything. Just vibe coding it with their bleeding dege models.

> No, they haven't figured out anything. Just vibe coding it with their bleeding dege models.

I'm sure you were saying "bleeding edge" but my first impression was to translate dege to mean degen/degenerate which made this so much more fun to read.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#394
post #364

I wonder if we will eventually see the same drop in general knowledge we saw with manual driving (in some parts of the world), cursive handwriting, clothing repair, etc. Of course, coding was never as prevalent as these practices in the general population, so it might be harder to measure, but I feel we will definitely see it taught less in schools, harder to find resources, etc. in the coming decades, becoming more…

It is guaranteed to happen. The key question is when is it a problem? We've lost lots of knowledge as a society but we're still going. Some skills decline in usefulness, others gain utility with the passage of time. Tale as old as time.

I would hope as long as there is a demand, there will be those willing to fill it. There never would be a problem because the skill set would stick around as long as there is the need for it. At least that has been the historical trend.

We still have horse farriers for show horses or for family pets. It is a niche there for those that need it, but nowhere near as common a job as it once was. It will likely be like this. Those that like doing it will stick to it, but we will not see Indeed listing jobs for it as much. Of course with less demand, less will have the skills, so those that do have them can definitely command quite the power when they are called on for something.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#396
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I first brought this up late last year – that there used to exist a kind of selection pressure against both developers and against features which would prevent certain functionality from ever being shipped, specifically: - Functionality which exceed the technical ability or knowledge of the developer which built it; and - Functionality which would require an excessive number of changes that time/cost became a constra…

There is a limit, after a few 10,000's of LOC ai projects start disintegrating and becoming unmanageable.

I believe tinygrad still caps the total LoC in their repository to 10k

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#397
The boss says we should do it this way. The boss hasn’t got a clue about how to do it. But he knows what he wants, more or less. And we can fill in the details. And we don’t make a stink about him not knowing exactly how things work. That doesn’t serve anyone. And he still thinks that he knows how to do it. Because he tells us how to do it and it gets done.

Now everyone can be the boss.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#398
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"LLMs can't write code worth a damn" I think it depends on the - ahem - context. In my experience they usually can, sometimes they can't. But generally their sense of software architecture remains abysmal, so even if their writing is ok, you need to have architectural authority the very least to guide them.

The fact that they sometimes can't means you can't have someone who is not a software engineer. Otherwise there is no way to verify whether the LLM wrote correct code or not.

Exactly. Expertise is frequently required to steer, correct, rework, know what is good and what isn't. This happens 500 times a day on both the micro level and the architecture level.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#399
post #66
post #48

100% We're already seeing this at the enterprise level. Companies have dictates from leadership that "if you're writing code manually, you're doing it wrong." Okay, that kind of works for a while. We are indeed producing a shit-ton of code, but the reality is that engineers are pumping out code faster than the humans can understand and (honestly) review it. That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read t…

> That sounds great until you realize that "hey Claude, read this Jira ticket and implement the feature in this code base" isn't really worth $200K/year. Nor even €50k/year. Two things are true: 1) The coding part of my career is over. LLMs are capable of doing everything I've ever been paid to *write*. 2) My actual job also included non-coding work: Does this attempted solution even work at all? Is this solving the…

This I solemnly swear. To take my paycheck with gratitude, even if my employer makes three times as much based on my output. To take whatever technological disruption that graces my path as an immaterial and impersonal force. To politely and discreetely bow out when the statistics soup trained on my fellow colleagues makes me unemployable and worthless. Amen.

Re: Coding expertise is going to collapse from AI reliance

#400

I've, more than once, gone long spans of time doing purely management and architecture level work, then returned to programming. A little rusty? Sure. But I never forgot how to program or lost the skills that actually matter. Seems mostly like a non-issue for people already in the field. The real issue will be with people that never learn it in the first place. And even that isn't so bad, learning programming isn't s…

> It took me less than 6 months from no knowledge to my first job. I agreed with you up until this sentence. Entry-level devs with 6 months of require an enormous amount of time and mentoring until they're able to really perform well. I think the greater concern being expressed is not will people be able to type syntactically correct code? , it's will people be able to write software well? .

Never worked at a company that had junior devs, so I can’t say. I’ve had interns though, and some that were better than most of the low budget offshore contractors that I’ve ever worked with. I’ve worked with devs that have a decade of experience but can’t really ship anything. I think it just comes down to being good at this type of job or not.
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