Someone should send this doc to papajohns.com, which has overcomplicated their website to the point it doesn't even work in Firefox anymore.
Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
391–400 of 605 posts
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#392As a non-web dev, I have a question about this part: > There was a sad coda; as is the way of contract work, I moved on. I explained what I had built to my replacement, that it always worked even without javascript. He was appalled and said, “but that’s a lot more work for us.” Why is it more work? The approach described in the article seems honestly reasonably simple: just write the standard components for the form,…
Two years ago, I started a new company, and decided at the outset to avoid using any heavy JavaScript SPA framework. We stuck to simple server-rendered html and only use progressive-enhancement style JavaScript. Our app was fast, and simple, but it also came at a cost: we were limited in our ability to take rich UI elements off the shelf with an npm package. We had to do a lot more work to provide a rich user experie…
I also prefer simple web tech, but I'm really glad you brought these points up! Ecosystems matter more than a lot of purist devs think.
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#393"customers could either use an old ASP form on the website" Did I miss it, or did the article neglect to explain why this was a problem?
You ever tried to maintain or enhance an ASP form that was built 20 years ago and enhanced by random devs with no documentation? I was working with ASP forms 15 years ago that were hopelessly outdated, included tons of technical debt and were not in the least bit user friendly. You can accomplish so much more with things that ship in every browser now. It’s not a very modern technology and you miss out on things that are now very standardized and much, much easier and quicker to develop and maintain.
Also, Microsoft.
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are far too empathetic to them. They should not hold the jobs they have. These are the people writing React monstrosities for government benefit websites, and testing them on fast iPhones and fast 4G, without realizing that every page load for actual users will take 30 seconds on their old $200 Android on 3G, and users won’t complete the form. It’s a culture of not giving a shit, that’s the deeper issue.
Junior and midlevel devs aren't decision makers for government benefit websites. The culture of not giving a shit is real, but the responsibility goes far beyond these roles.
If we're talking a government site, chances are you don't have the budget to be able to hire much above junior or midlevel devs. And the project manager probably has a small budget [^1] and little experience with what the web design choices really mean (and what the trade off are).
I think you'd be surprised who ends up making those decisions.
Which goes back to the original point (that's valid for any project) - keep your user in mind. If your users will be using recent-ish iOS or Android devices, use as much flair as you'd like. If your users will be using mass-market low-end devices or used devices from 4+ years ago, then maybe dial down the interface.
Knowing your user is important, no matter what level you're at.
[1] Unless we're talking about some kind of large system that's being redesigned by a consulting company on a cost-plus contract. Who knows how those decisions are made.
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
Starting a few years ago, I realized some junior and medior engineers never once considered the possibility of building a website (app, experience, etc.) in anything other than a heavy SPA framework. But they're not stupid people! If you directly asked "Can you build a website without React?" they know the answer is obviously "Yes." However, if you asked them to build a new website, they would unthinkingly start a ne…
Kinda sorta analogous to the cloud engineers who can standup complex monstrosities in AWS-land, but don’t know the first thing about how to troubleshoot say a connectivity or simple problem where they have to ssh to an ec2 box and do the needful
well... just because you know how to ssh into the prod DNS host and manually update the prod zone files in vim to remove orphan A records + duplicate CNAME records, in order to fix an ip address exhaustion issue that is blocking new VM's from spinning up for your customers... it doesnt mean that you should, lol.
that was 8 years ago in my first gig. now i kinda wonder... having those skills made it easier to put off implementing a robust long term solution. it was playing with fire, sure, but i was a rookie
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#396> When we launched, the number of people completing the form doubled. The analytics people didn’t even know where these users were coming from. Of course, your javascript-based analytics package doesn’t see the users you are bouncing because of javascript failures. Yeah, reminds me of the b52 story re holes in wings on the planes that made it back from missions, leading them down the wrong path of strengthening wings…
Certainly not the b52, which arrived after the end of WWII…
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#397"And then the whole bus clapped..."
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#398There are truly an amazing amount of red flags in this otherwise well meaning and short post.
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
Junior and midlevel devs aren't decision makers for government benefit websites. The culture of not giving a shit is real, but the responsibility goes far beyond these roles.
I am always baffled by people who blame developers. Like some mid dev or junior would calling shots what stack should be used for project.
It is EXACTLY the type of people that are hired to make decisions, because of either nepotism or impressing with portfolio filled with overcomplicated, 3.js frontpages.
Re: Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I'm missing something but aren't PWAs pretty dead-simple on both iOS and Android? Maybe it's the "reliable storage" part that's the gap?
I thought I read that one or both of them removed or heavily restricted PWA support to funnel more apps to their 30%-taking app store.
No that's not correct, they both support PWAs with a large feature set. I built and have been maintaining a client's PWA (an internal tool for their employees) for over 10 years now.
Not my site, but someone on HN (can't remember who) built it: https://pwascore.com