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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#391

Post by [deleted] »

jansport123 wrote: post #382
kuerbel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

seems to be a common concern amongst the local population everywhere "X identity is hiring only X identity"

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#392

Post by einpoklum »

> ... population has grown... ... number of people immigrating depends primarily on the labour market. When the economy is strong, companies... often recruit the ... workers they need from the EU.

> ...

> The... sustainability initiative...[:] If the permanent resident population exceeds 9.5 million ... the Federal Council and Parliament will need to take measures, particularly in the areas of asylum and family reunification.

So, this measure says that if companies need more workers, Switzerland will refuse to grant asylum, and will prevent Swiss residents from having their spouse, child or parent come live with them.

Regardless of whether population capping is legitimate or not, that sounds quite nasty. If the measure had said "in case of population growing, there will be a moratorium on recruiting employees from abroad", then you would have a discussion.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#393

Post by einpoklum »

kuerbel wrote: post #348
bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

The text of the proposal disagrees with your claim. Or - are there lots of Europeans seeking asylum in Switzerland?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#394

Post by incognito124 »

rayiner wrote: post #99
jrflowers wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you increased Switzerland’s population density by 50% they’d be in a crowded hellhole like (checks notes) Belgium

But Belgium does suck. I drove from Amsterdam to Paris in the early 2000s, and Belgium stuck out as being obviously worse (dirtier) than the other two.

https://sive.rs/4d

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#395

Post by tempay »

kakacik wrote: post #318
Schiendelman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the state - it's your neighbors pushing the same building restrictions as the rest of the developed world, where people say "I don't want another neighbor next to me", which results in too few apartments for even the existing people's children...

You should check Geneva then - they are building apartment buildings like crazy in past 5 years. Too much if you ask me - in very center, almost every small park or green spot is now 6 story concrete building. Only the biggest protected parks are untouched. City is visibly and permanently degrading into concrete field. Weirdly schizophrenic move - they try to keep pushing bike lanes everywhere, even where not safe to…

> in very center, almost every small park or green spot is now 6 story concrete building

I struggle to see this. Central Geneva is full of beautiful, well-maintained green spaces and children's play areas with plenty of larger parks scattered around.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#397

Post by throwaway67678 »

philipallstar wrote: post #227
bootsmann wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more people with certain skills (if you're filtering based on that) This is how freedom of movement works, yes, and it's a key reason why our country is so rich.

[flagged]

Switzerland, homogeneous? Is this some kind of joke?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#398

Post by throwaway85825 »

tempay wrote: post #384
throwaway85825 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't do or won't do for slave wages?

I can't comment outside of Geneva but it's hardly "slave wages": * https://www.mission-geneve.dfae.admin.ch/en/manual-labour-mi... * (scroll to the cost breakdown) https://batmaid.ch/en/about-us

A better definition of slave wages is:

After food, shelter and necessities is there something left over? Lately consuner spending is increasingly debt indicating that its not break even.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#399

Post by actionfromafar »

diath wrote: post #354
kakacik wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should check Geneva then - they are building apartment buildings like crazy in past 5 years. Too much if you ask me - in very center, almost every small park or green spot is now 6 story concrete building. Only the biggest protected parks are untouched. City is visibly and permanently degrading into concrete field. Weirdly schizophrenic move - they try to keep pushing bike lanes everywhere, even where not safe to…

These jobs are unpopular because the pay is shit, not because people don't want to do them, the government could simply have grants/bonus program for people employed in these positions so that the taxpayer money directly funds the bettering of the society and environment around them. Besides, Japan is a good real world example that you do not need to lean on immigrant labor to stop your country from becoming "dirty";…

Yeah... but aren't there many more poor people in Japan, too?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#400

Post by rayiner »

tpholland wrote: post #314
bluebarbet wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it favors social cohesion and social trust, which are strongly correlated with economic success. Americans are reflexively thinking of race, but that's entirely incidental and basically irrelevant.

But Switzerland emphatically does not have a homogenous population. It has an exceptionally diverse population, linguistically, religiously and culturally. And yet as you say it has an exceptional record when it comes to cohesion and social trust. Living the dream!

I’d point out two things:

1) While Switzerland combines several ethnicities and cultures, the fusion dates back almost a millennium. The Old Swiss Confederacy arose in the 14th century, before Italian, French, and Romansh were even recognized as separate languages.

2) The Swiss federal structure goes to great lengths to give autonomy to the distinct groups.

So it’s not accurate to say that Switzerland is “homogenous” in the same way Denmark is homogenous. But it’s not like Switzerland’s Italian-speaking population grew from nearly 0% to the current 8% over a period of a few decades. There is a common umbrella identity encompassing these groups that dates back a long time.

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