Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you reconcile your comment with the fact that computers were used productively for decades before the invention of 1080p and larger formats.
We also have decade of studies showing that one of the best ways to boost productivity is to give people more screen real estate. This was true in the 80s, it was true in the 90s, and it didn’t really seem to plateau until something like 5-6K displays. The only reason people didn’t use bigger displays back then was due to the cost — a friend’s dad ran a prints go in the 90s and he really benefited from a display big…
32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
391–400 of 415 posts
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There were so many potential PC era boundaries like case and motherboard form factors Only one change really from AT/Baby AT to ATX. We've been on ATX now for 30 years. I could grab an A-Bit BH6 motherboard from 1998 and put it in my modern Hyte Y60 case if I wanted to. > external peripheral buses Since we're talking starting from 486 era, that only means going from PS/2 to USB for keyboard/mouse, parallel port for…
>ESDI to IDE transition ESDI and ST-506 MFM/RLL before it lived in universe of dedicated HDD interface cards.
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you reconcile your comment with the fact that computers were used productively for decades before the invention of 1080p and larger formats.
Because decades ago, applications didn’t waste anywhere near the absurd amounts of screen real estate that they do now. Look at how much you can fit onto a 1920x1080 display running Windows 2000 compared with a recent release of GNOME.
Bring back skeuomorphic design. Make buttons look like buttons again.
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is hard to overstate the damage that the infinite money being poured into AI is doing to the wider economy. I get what you're saying but medium term this is an extremely funny sentiment. This money being poured is likely to end up being a huge boon for a lot of economic sectors, including in the US. Most commodity shortages like this end in a glut, with a medium term win for consumers, even if we have 1-2 (more)…
> I get what you're saying but medium term this is an extremely funny sentiment. Sentiment is the right word here. None of us really know, and go by feeling. If you perceive the AI boom as approaching tulip craze levels of irrationality, it feels pretty dire. The RAM is a commodity and may be repurposed afterward. This kind of thing is a bit like a debt jubilee when the dust clears and survivors scavenge the dead. Bu…
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#395This is the PCPartPicker chart that I monitor: https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/memory/#ram.ddr5.5600.... - $900 for 2x32GB, used to be $200 a year ago.
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get it, the Beige Box of Theseus. I guess most would probably assume at least one epic refresh where there wasn't really anything carried across except maybe the parking spot on your desk. And since the 486 era, most probably expect your desk and/or physical site changed too. There were so many potential PC era boundaries like case and motherboard form factors, external peripheral buses, HDD controller types, expan…
> There were so many potential PC era boundaries like case and motherboard form factors Only one change really from AT/Baby AT to ATX. We've been on ATX now for 30 years. I could grab an A-Bit BH6 motherboard from 1998 and put it in my modern Hyte Y60 case if I wanted to. > external peripheral buses Since we're talking starting from 486 era, that only means going from PS/2 to USB for keyboard/mouse, parallel port for…
The buses I was thinking of included ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI, PCIe. Yes there were ways to carry some things across since motherboards often had a couple bus types at once. But in my experience, the older peripheral cards often just got retired as they became either obsolete concepts or totally integrated in the next motherboard. I.e. you once commonly had serial port and parallel port expansion cards, game controller cards, sound cards, disk controller cards, and basic 2D graphics cards.
Cases also got smaller because the motherboards needed less space, people needed fewer expansion cards, and also because people needed fewer and fewer "drive bays". In the early days, you saw both 5.25" and 3.5" floppy drives, CD-ROM drives, big chunky HDDs, and possibly other weird removable media drives. Now you can easily have a capable corporate-style PC with no expansion cards, and no drives other than the M.2 stuck into the motherboard.
On the external side, I can think of PS/2, serial, parallel, USB, external SCSI, Firewire, e-SATA. Some of these coexisted with USB until it became high speed enough to subsume them. With graphics there was VGA, composite video, DVI, DisplayPort. Sound had 3.5mm, coax, toslink, coax digital. Communications commonly had POTS modem, coax ethernet, twisted pair ethernet. Somewhat esoteric were WiFi and bluetooth adapters. These could be on dedicated expansion cards, integrated into sound/graphics/comms cards, or integrated into the motherboard.
There were also weird expansion cards that paired with a particular external device, like a scanner or Hercules monochrome monitor. And more unusual cards like video-capture and digital TV or radio tuners.
The PSU issue wasn't just overall wattage but different set or balance of voltage rails and kinds of internal connectors needed for powered components. And shifts like standby power/soft-off behaviors.
I also recall AT to ATX and later uATX. Earlier motherboards were massive with socketed DRAM and SRAM chips and lots of simpler logic chips all over. They just kept shrinking as everything got more highly integrated. If you ever got a surplus Dell you might have encountered BTX too, which was like the left-handed universe.
I also had a phase with two uATX cases and almost had a "two space garbage collection" upgrade cycle, shifting parts in, between them, and out. One was my desktop PC and the other a "media PC" attached to TV and home stereo.
Some folks like me had a phase of trying to accelerate the down-sizing, abandoning our ATX/uATX for things like the Shuttle XPC mini/bookshelf computer formats. This meant more incompatible chassis, motherboard, and PSU formats. For me, a computer after 2000 was case/PSU + mobo/CPU/RAM + disk. The disk was either a single HDD/SSD or small software RAID array. At one time, we needed multiple disks for capacity, but now it can just be one or two M.2 drives on the motherboard and no disk bays at all.
This also leads to periodically thinking just a laptop will suffice, and then that becomes another thing that sees little upgrade and carry forward over longer time periods...
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#397GN did a documentary on the situation from the perspective of consumer-facing companies. Seems pretty dire for them, and it's hard to see the long-range consequences, but the idea of consumers being priced out isn't too far out, which to me is a little alarming. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zyQwAhppWj8
Consumer oriented parts businesses are going to go out of business from this. Motherboards, cases, coolers, power supplies, fans, etc. At this point it's a matter of how many. Selection and competition will be permanently reduced, as I don't see these types of companies coming back any time soon.
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my humble opinion, 4K gaming is rather overrated. I find high refresh rates at 1440p to be the sweet spot and you don't have to get a top-end GPU to drive it at ultra settings in games.
Not just "rather overrated", it's completely overrated. There just isn't a big difference in visual quality with 4k. It is primarily driven by companies trying to sell gear, not by it actually looking better.
You really need to get your eyes checked.
Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#399Re: 32GB of DDR5 now costs $375 – AI shortage continues to squeeze PC building
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There were so many potential PC era boundaries like case and motherboard form factors Only one change really from AT/Baby AT to ATX. We've been on ATX now for 30 years. I could grab an A-Bit BH6 motherboard from 1998 and put it in my modern Hyte Y60 case if I wanted to. > external peripheral buses Since we're talking starting from 486 era, that only means going from PS/2 to USB for keyboard/mouse, parallel port for…
Yeah, I guess I have a longer view since our first IBM compatible PC was a 286 based XT form factor. And in households with multiple computer users, upgrades could look more like mitosis (or nuclear decay?), with some parts splitting off to form new computers and less clear lineage of one computer just mutating. The buses I was thinking of included ISA, EISA, VLB, PCI, PCIe. Yes there were ways to carry some things a…
The first time I used a PC was an Amiga in 1989. As my username implies, I was only 7 years old at the time.
My first IBM-compatible PC was a 486, I think in 1993. My dad got a used one and bought some multimedia kit that included a CD-ROM drive and audio card (Likely Sound Blaster, or at the very least, Sound Blaster compatible). Played a bunch of Stellar 7 and King's Quest, but also got into DOOM and Master of Orion.
That 486 was the start of the Ship of Theseus PC, though I didn't play a part in replacing parts until 1999 when I was 17 and bought a new hard drive with the money from my first job. Until then, my dad did the upgrades, but I always watched with great interest.
> Some folks like me had a phase of trying to accelerate the down-sizing, abandoning our ATX/uATX for things like the Shuttle XPC mini/bookshelf computer formats.
The tiny form factors like uATX and ITX never really interested me. Even when I started going to LAN events, I preferred a normal sized PC, even though my current rig probably weighs like 30-35 lbs. My GPU alone is like 3 lbs, and the Hyte Y60 case is 21 lbs empty.
> This also leads to periodically thinking just a laptop will suffice
I could never. My demands for being able to upgrade, not to mention to have something aesthetically pleasing, are too much for a laptop. I don't even have a laptop for casual use.