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What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

jacquescorbytuech.com

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Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#391

Post by closetohome »

nurumaik wrote: post #91
pants2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

Apple should add "promotional notifications" section to iOS, then ban everyone who don't put their marketing bs into that category

There was actually an app store rule for the first couple of years after notifications became available, basically saying don't use it for promotions. A few apps actually got pulled for sending spammy notifications.

But then everyone started doing it and Apple stopped enforcing the rule. It may still be in there somewhere as a "guideline."

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#392

Post by int0x29 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #99
lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

Yeah, this entire article is pretty transparent that it's from the sender perspective, and worried about platforms taking over "sender control". Who is he kidding? The vast majority of apps have absolutely proven they can't be trusted to respect your attention. From my perspective, the more roadblocks the platforms put between unnecessary notifications and my phone, the better. And I don't think Apple or Google are s…

Worse it's from a marketing perspective if you read the guys bio.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#393

Post by rafterydj »

lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

100% agree. The spam problem is, I fear, a symptom of the walled gardens of Google and Apple not being very judiciously maintained. They continue to push the bare minimum of notification controls out for the user, but double deal when they allow e.g. custom app-defined notification lists. Something like this would simply never fly if the Unix philosophy were an actual consideration in their product design.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#394

Post by bbarn »

davidgh wrote: post #389

My frustration is with services like Uber, Bolt, Airbnb, etc. where you need the push for core services and then the provides use them to slip in spam.

Uber is especially bad here. I live rural, but when I travel I use it (and uber eats sometimes) when I'm out of town. At this point I uninstall the app and only install it when I know I might use it because it's so invasive with marketing crap. Even more annoying is the fact that why yes, I would love a burger delivered but there's literally nothing your service can get me to my home.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#396

Post by inetknght »

monkpit wrote: post #386
wavemode wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It baffles me that they do this. I have to disable push notifications from Lyft entirely, so instead they send me ride updates as text messages, which surely must cost them way more money. Why not just introduce a "ride updates only" push notification category and stop this madness?

It needs to be enforced by the OS or by law. Like how you get transactional emails without getting marketing spam. I want the same for notifications.

> It needs to be enforced by the OS or by law. Like how you get transactional emails without getting marketing spam.

What glorious universe do you live in where email is respected enough to have transactions separate from marketing, and that this is not only required by law but also enforced?

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#397

Post by WorldMaker »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #131
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this entire article is pretty transparent that it's from the sender perspective, and worried about platforms taking over "sender control". Who is he kidding? The vast majority of apps have absolutely proven they can't be trusted to respect your attention. From my perspective, the more roadblocks the platforms put between unnecessary notifications and my phone, the better. And I don't think Apple or Google are s…

I recently had to setup Microsoft Authenticator. It refused to register a code unless I enabled notifications. You are a two factor app. I should never be in a situation where there is an unexpected login I need to verify.

I believe this is also a consequence of iOS gating background processing and scheduled timers allowed by an app based on whether or not notifications are enabled by the user. I believe Microsoft Authenticator also wants notifications enabled for the same reason most Banking apps on iOS want notifications enabled, so that it can register a ~10-minute background timer to run any backups, securely clear program memory, and safely "logout" from any active "session".

On the one hand it helps avoid "permissions fatigue" that the user just has the one permission to manage ("enable notifications"), but on the other hand it does lead to these questions about why an entire class of applications (banking apps and security apps) whose role should be mostly never to send notifications (because that can be a FUD/fear/fraud vector) need notifications enabled to work securely.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#399

Post by WorldMaker »

nottorp wrote: post #264
tambeb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notification categories are like mailing lists now. You may have unsubscribed from the daily deals email but you're still going to be auto subscribed to every new slightly modified category in perpetuity. Unless you fully disable notifications for an app (in Android at least, in my experience), new enabled by default notification categories are added all the time.

iOS asks you if you want to allow notifications when each new app is started. You can just say no there and you're done. It would be better if they were totally opt-in of course (1), but that's not bloody likely to happen. (1) As in off by default with no questions.

On iOS Scheduled Summaries are really great. That's become my personal default on my phone. Scheduled Summaries roughly every 4 hours during waking hours and the default choice every time the question pops up for a new app is "In Scheduled Summary". I could see with some modest UX improvements Scheduled Summaries becoming the default for more people.

Heavy use of Scheduled Summaries does also lead to me wondering why there isn't a "default notifications to Ask/On/Scheduled Summaries/Off" global setting, though I would want that choice between Scheduled and Off at least.

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