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Your phone is about to stop being yours

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#391

Post by groby_b »

rybosworld wrote: post #305
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

While not equivalent to a true iOS app, PWA is a decent option that allows you to circumvent the app store restrictions. If you are trying to build apps primarily for yourself, it's a decent option.

Have PWAs stopped working on Android, or something?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#392

Post by handoflixue »

michaelt wrote: post #354
Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

> Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? PCs happened by accident. Before the PC, people had TVs - devices not for creating, but for passively consuming content made by big corporations and the state. And we had games consoles - devices not for creating, but for playing games made by a medium-sized company, with strict approval by a huge company (who want a cut). Strictly censored to be a…

Alongside TV we had cameras, and families across the country filming birthdays and other special occasions.

Alongside newspapers we had 'zine culture and mail-order pamphlets.

There has always been the option to contribute - the Apple iPhone is quite possibly the first exception.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#393

Post by antiframe »

MYEUHD wrote: post #363
seviu wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically not but the devil is in the details. Having to reinstall the app every 7 days and a limit of one app doesn’t even pass the bare minimum. Jolla has a prelaunch campaign, decent phones for 200€. I might just as well grab one. Sick of having a phone which is more expensive than my laptop but I can barely use.

The limit is 3 apps AFAIK

Imagine Windows limited you to three apps. How is this acceptable?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#394

Post by fsflover »

627467 wrote: post #265
dvh wrote: post #154

On my Android phone's home screen I have 23 apps, 11 of them are my own. If Android prevents me from installing my own apps I will switch to something else.

Unless you move to a linux phone (good luck finding one or daily driving it) your phone options are iPhone. iOS restricts you to install only up to 3 personally signed apps which need to be resigned every 7 days only if you're in the same network of the computer that signs them. Or you live in europe and you can jump through much worse hoops to install AltStores which also break as soon as you travel outside of europ…

I daily drive Librem 5, and it's been fine.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#395

Post by jraph »

davsti4 wrote: post #388
lynndotpy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. For me, Google services are not an option, so my Android experience is sans-Google. Until September 2025, I'd say iOS had actually gotten better than Android. CalDAV, CardDAV, and SMB are baked into iOS, whereas these are onerous to set up on Android. These are very very nice protocols, and I use them all daily. (Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders, and Files.) Apple's developer ecosystem lacks the FOSS…

Sounds like you're Apple now, but would love to hear what you're actually using for DAV on Android if at all?

DAVx5

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#397

Post by kuhsaft »

lucb1e wrote: post #319
Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

No need to play this scenario in your head, here it is in the real world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT Few interested hardware vendors, discontinued after 4 years. "mixed reviews at launch, while critics and analysts deemed it to be commercially unsuccessful" Windows 10 S was another attempt that "Similarly [restricts] software installation to applications obtained via Windows Store." Cancelled after one…

I think it’s because the Microsoft Store barely has any apps that users use. The Microsoft Store didn't support the Win32 API, so developers had to rewrite their apps.

iOS was a new SDK from the start.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#398

Post by array_key_first »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #142
dethos wrote: post #75

To be sincere, they were never truly ours. A proof of that is they were able to come up with this, and you don't have a way to reject it. What we actually need are (open) alternatives, not to double down on Google's ecosystem and Google-controlled OS. We need to control the device we bought and be able to run whatever we wish on it. Just like we do on PCs.

Security is essential for an appliance like a smart phone. I fight the general purpose computing battle on my desktop with Linux, but on my phone I just need something that won’t be hacked.

I really don't understand this mentality at all. Freedom is about the ability to do more stuff, not the requirement to do more stuff. Meaning, everything you want to do with a locked down phone, you can do with an open one.

There's no, like, gun to your head saying you HAVE to side load apps. You can just... not... do that. If you think side loading is insecure. You can download 100% of your apps from the play store. In fact, that's what 95% of people do.

I mean, what's the threat model here? That you somehow forget your own belief about side loading being insecure and then accidently side load an app? Does that even seem possible?

I can kind of understand this argument for granny who doesn't know where she is. Kind of. But for you, it makes no sense. I mean really, think about what you're saying here about you as a computer user or even as a person.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#399

Post by fuzztester »

bigyabai wrote: post #302
627467 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop being yours As if most android maker phones don't already fully own your device - preventing you from unlocking of bootloader and installing an OS that actually doesnt enforce the restriction google is introducing in their flavour of android. To pretend that with this change android becomes exactly like iOS is... ridiculous? I can pick any 10yo old android phone from my drawer and develop for it, no problem an…

In the words of a Great American: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Lincoln?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#400

Post by fsflover »

kuhsaft wrote: post #362
cogman10 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the depressing part. I keep looking for something I could potential run the likes of kde mobile and maybe waydroid on, but there's really just nobody doing this. You are basically locked into a vendor kernel if it's even available.

People forget how much the mobile hardware industry relies on non-free infrastructure. Infrastructure developed by companies that make the standards. You really can't make a good open-source phone because you, pretty much, have to play by the rules of the companies in these consortiums.

Except Librem 5 has been created and is usable by the HN people.
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