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The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

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Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#391

Post by Orygin »

nine_k wrote: post #276
marcus_holmes wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never lived in a country where people are allowed to keep guns. That scares the crap out of me. Not just because of random strangers. I went through a mental health crisis, and there was a dark time where if I had had a gun I would be dead now. No amount of lockers or safe boxes or mental health tests would have saved me from that gun. And wtf do you need a gun for anyway? I have never, not once, been in a sit…

> And wtf do you need a gun for anyway? One of the reasons that Switzerland, a country te size of Bay Area, with 9M current population, has not been overrun by the many wars in Europe for last 200 years is that every citizen is expected to fight back, without formally joining a military force for that. All men have to serve in the military for a couple of months to get the basic training, obtain and master a small ar…

> has not been overrun by the many wars in Europe for last 200 years is that every citizen is expected to fight back

Lol this is so gun-brained, even for an American.

Switzerland has not been "overrun" because they are in the freaking mountains. Gun or not, good luck invading mountain cliffs.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#392

Post by asah »

horsawlarway wrote: post #38

Personally, I see this as an assault on 3d printing more than any real attempt to regulate guns. I own several 3d printers. If I wanted to make something resembling a firearm I'd go to home depot WAY before I bothered 3d printing parts. You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. So given we don't do this regulati…

Using this logic, we never address any problem until we address all problems.

Do we never patch one security hole until we patch all security holes?

(I'm not defending this particular legislation, just saying that this isn't the way to defeat it)

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#393

Post by direwolf20 »

some_random wrote: post #161
abtinf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most likely answer. Just as it was the large grocery chains that have funded all the plastic/paper bag bans. The gun lobby has a long history of trying to ban low cost market entrants.

This is a well documented Everytown campaign, you can't blame this one on firearms manufacturers.

Often, different groups align on certain issues. The one that actually causes the change to happen is the one with the most clout.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#394

Post by sam345 »

fortran77 wrote: post #232
abtinf wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grocery chain campaign is well documented. Just search for it. The short answer is that bags are a non-trivial cost for the larger chains. Now, they get to charge for them at an astounding markup and no longer have to compete with any grocery store on this point. All grocery stores are affected equally, which means it is disproportionately damaging to mom-and-pop stores and smaller chains.

Grocery stores _absolutely_ supported the bag bans, though they weren't the initial groups asking for them. Similar to how the cigarette companies liked the TV ad bans--if nobody could advertise on TV than the playing field would be level and their profits all went up from decreased costs.

Some of them supported them because they were pressured into it. Grocery bans of bags and payment etc. are a PITA for customers. No business in it's right mind would force that on their customer unless they were required to. Passing the cost on to their customer is not an issue. Supporting laws requiring payment etc. are cost benefit analysis. Is it worth fighting the bad PR etc or go along. But obviously they wouldn't have provided the bags in the first place if it was not a competitive benefit to them.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#395

Post by bell-cot »

mcmcmc wrote: post #103
giancarlostoro wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing you need to make is the "lower" or whichever part the ATF constitutes as "the firearm" I've seen someone take a shovel and turn it into an AK. Once you have the "firearm" part of whatever gun you're building, the rest of the parts can be shipped to you in most of the country (idk about CA, and NY though) and you can easily assemble the rest of the gun. Like you say, you just need to build a key metal p…

Didn’t Luigi Mangione 3D print his gun? There’s definitely an appeal for criminals

The appeal is strictly to certain sorts of dreamers, ideologues, and tinkerers. The vast majority of criminals are more pragmatic.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#396

Post by hnburnsy »

bob001 wrote: post #197

I'd bet money that the gun lobby is behind this. What better way to dilute the anti-gun sentiment then to get useless legislation that targets a group that has traditionally been anti-gun. Even the EFF, which generally doesn't touch second amendment stuff, is speaking up. Massive gun lobby win right there.

No it is not, see my other comments

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#397

Post by RugnirViking »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #350
saltyoldman wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't there metals that are undetectable/less detectable, like titanium or even stainless steel?

No, it doesn’t work like that in the modern world. The nature of the materials are pretty obvious to a remotely competent sensor.

using what physical process? How exactly do they detect any metal? A genuine question.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#398

Post by RugnirViking »

nine_k wrote: post #322
lynndotpy wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is different than the proposed test for sanity.

Is a proof of lack of insanity a proof of sanity?

are you aware of the history of mental institutions and insanity charges being used to suppress political dissidents around the world? Most notably in the USSR but the west has also done this sort of thing.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#399

Post by Tangurena2 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #38

Personally, I see this as an assault on 3d printing more than any real attempt to regulate guns. I own several 3d printers. If I wanted to make something resembling a firearm I'd go to home depot WAY before I bothered 3d printing parts. You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. So given we don't do this regulati…

Watching what bills show up in my state's legislature, several of them are addressing "Hollywood plots" rather than real-world issues.

For example, one legislator always sponsors a bill (which goes nowhere every year) to outlaw chemtrails. This year's version[0] includes the plot from the SF novel Termination Shock[1]. The word "artillery" was not in any previous session's version, nor was sulfur.

Links:

0 - https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/26rs/hb60.html

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termination_Shock_(novel)#

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#400

Post by hyperhopper »

parineum wrote: post #328
favorited wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You basically just need a metal tube, and well... a pipe from home depot does that much better than trying to 3d print something much less reliable. Why would you buy a pipe at Home Depot? A gun barrel is not a firearm, and is not required to be registered or serialized. You can drive to Arizona or Nevada and buy an actual barrel, with rifling, manufactured to meet well-known specifications, without showing an ID.…

> California legislators haven't met a bad gun law that they don't like. California and New York have been done more for gun rights than anyone else by passing absurd laws that get struck down by the judiciary, setting precedent.

Tell that to the milllions of people in states like this that have spent most/all their life having their rights infringed upon.
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