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US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

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Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#391
post #157
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the KMT military dictatorship in Taiwan, the KMT used the radio to spread its anti-democratic propaganda and disparage pro-democracy activists. Activists meanwhile spread their messages via pirate radio.

Cool, what does that have to do with anything?

Oppressor and activist may sometimes use the same tools.

The activist needs to first go to where the people are.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#393
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data is open, and so we don't have to do the visual reasoning off an imperfect graph. SF Chronicle has done a pretty rare (but I think good journalistic practice) of specifying the source of the data: https://data.sfgov.org/Public-Safety/Police-Department-Incid... First to match the graph you make sure you pick 'Larceny - From Vehicle' only (there are some others one might argue matter) and ensure you're only cou…

Your analysis also supports a covid trough, not a covid peak and certainly no covid effect. I agree with other commentators suggesting that flock cameras are not the full or even most of the story, but absolutely disagree with the GP that car break-ins are some identifiable covid phenom or that the decrease is merely a post-covid return to normalcy. Hopefully there was nothing wrong with posting a news article with a…

I was avoiding getting into the specifics because rather than tea-leaf-reading a picture one can simply look at the numbers themselves and they cannot support anything but that the one year period immediately following the lockdowns was much lower than the surrounding years.

And I think it was great you shared the news article! For many others, analyses one does oneself are less believable. I prefer doing it myself to convince myself but I wouldn’t expect it to convince others. Here I did it because I wanted to know what the fact is and I always have trouble with picking change points on a bar graph without all the ticks marked.

I put it at this level because it feels supplemental to your link not because it’s a debunking of your comment or whatever though perhaps https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47690707 is the best place to do it.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These companies build this tech in SF and Seattle, cities with some of the gnarliest public safety problems in the country I live just outside Seattle. I worked for Flock. Flock is a company based in Atlanta GA.

Axon, on the other hand, does have a decent sized Seattle presence.

Axon seems to be the defacto standard for body cameras but I don't know much about them...

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#395

It really is amazing how they managed to fit so much copper into those devices.

Would be a shame if it became common knowledge.

People stealing copper from public infrastructure in public spaces is exactly the sort of serious quality-of-life crime that I want something like Flock cameras to deter.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#396
post #245

Musician-turning-tech anarchist (?) Benn Jordan is making a very interesting series of videos about Flock cameras, their poor safety, and their gray-area interfacing with local governments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMIwNiwQewQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU1-uiUlHTo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9MwZkHiMQ I recommend them.

I think his comment about "why dogs might provide actual neighborhood safety" is a good reminder that the thing that makes communities safe is "knowing your neighbors." You don't get safety by building a castle with a moat and a million cameras. You get safety by building a community with context that can respond without having to just "react" to the 6s version of "what happened".

Vietnam is extremely safe because there are communities everywhere. There are old folks watching young folks. One viet friend said there's an expression "rice-powered cameras" which refers to people that start filming when something is happening.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#397
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have empirical evidence that we "habitually coddle criminals"? In this context, we're talking about SF, not the US at large. Yes, SF is well known for coddling criminals. This is, obviously, a qualitative characterization -- it cannot be proven empirically. But we can point at characteristic examples: https://ktxs.com/news/nation-world/san-francisco-ends-5m-alc... https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/s-f-s…

> We (the US) have more criminality than many peer nations Do you have any empirical evidence to support this claim?

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/international-crime...

> U.S. crime rates for the three violent crimes homicide, rape, robbery) were several times higher than the averages for reporting European countries. The U.S. homicide rate was 10.5-7.9 per 100,000 population compared to Europe's less than 2 per 100,000. The U.S. rate for rape was approximately seven times higher than the average for Europe. United States robbery rates were approximately four times higher than those in Europe. Theft and auto theft in the United States were approximately twice as high as in Europe. The U.S. rates for violent crime were also higher than those for Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, but differences were smaller than those for Europe.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be a shame if it became common knowledge.

People stealing copper from public infrastructure in public spaces is exactly the sort of serious quality-of-life crime that I want something like Flock cameras to deter.

There's really no stopping a guy from stealing scrap metal if he thinks it'll pay for his next fix.

It's like when you try to keep something from being taken by bolting it down and they just come in and steal the bolts too. Some of that's just a part of life.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#399
post #327
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bizarre comment. What level of absence of evidence would you accept to prove "not corrupt enough?" The "corruption snack" language strongly suggests you aren't really interested in changing your mind even if such evidence could be provided.

If you know of one I would gladly hold it up as a shining example and a template for others to follow. And yet...

It's also bizarre because light timings are set by DOTs, not police departments...

Do you think your local DOT is corrupt? I think mine is inept, but not corrupt.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because today it will be used as a first responder. Tomorrow a police officer will suggest that these drones (that we are already using successfully) could be very useful for checking up on that "dangerous" neighborhood.

In the city I live in, there is a chronic shortage of police officers and a lot of dangerous neighborhoods. If a drone could be used to do the same or a substantially-similar policing job in those neighborhoods that a human cop would, without having to pay for a human cop (not just their salary in and of itself, but also in terms of making the police department a place people are willing to work for at that salary),…

The "same or substantially-similar policing job" is the key to this argument. Which it can't. A drone can't de-escalate a tense conflict between neighbors, it can't provide traffic redirection after an accident, or even rescue a kitten from a tree.

It can't be a calm, reassuring presence, offer a kind smile, or give directions. It only disconnects the police force from the policed community. Its presence will only raise tensions and paranoia. And that's with unarmed drones!

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