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AI coding is gambling

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Re: AI coding is gambling

#391

Post by jlarcombe »

simonw wrote: post #95
lunar_mycroft wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Interns learn. LLMs only get better when a new model comes out, which will happen (or not) regardless of whether you use them now. 2. Who here thinks that having interns write all/almost all of your code and moving all your mid level and senior developers to exclusively reviewing their work and managing them is a good idea?

I don't know that the "humans learn, LLMs don't" argument holds any more with coding agents. Coding agents look at existing text in the codebase before they act. If they previously used a pattern you dislike and you tell them how to do differently, the next time they run they'll see the new pattern and are much more likely to follow that example. There are fancier ways of having them "learn" - self-updating CLAUDE.md…

If you think this is anything like working with a bright junior developer then i simply can't understand why.

Re: AI coding is gambling

#392

Post by hext »

skydhash wrote: post #315
hext wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I bet they didn't outright dismiss them as useless to the entire field though! I'm sure they still understood the value those fancy tools provided to their peers.

Unless someone is trolling, it’s rare for people to deem it as “useless”. Most counterpoints have been about ethics and issues that surround LLM usage. Things like licensing, coding vs review time, correctness and maintainability of the generated code, etc… Unless you believe we’re in a software engineering utopia, I think it’s fair to call those out.

I think it’s fair to call those things out 100% of the time regardless of the LLM usage. Not sure what gave you the impression otherwise.

Re: AI coding is gambling

#393

Post by SkyPuncher »

input_sh wrote: post #207
SkyPuncher wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if your AI coding approach is the slot machine approach. I've ended up with a process that produces very, very high quality outputs. Often needing little to no correct from me. I think of it like an Age of Empires map. If you go into battle surrounded by undiscovered parts of the map, you're in for a rude surprise. Winning a battle means having clarity on both the battle itself and risks next to the battle.

Until it produces predictable output, it's gambling. But it can't produce predictable output because it's a non-deterministic tool. What you're describing is increasing your odds while gambling, not that it's not gambling. Card counting also increases your odds while gambling, but it doesn't make it not gambling.

Every engineer I've ever worked with is non-deterministic, too.

Re: AI coding is gambling

#394

Post by SkyPuncher »

murkt wrote: post #151
SkyPuncher wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if your AI coding approach is the slot machine approach. I've ended up with a process that produces very, very high quality outputs. Often needing little to no correct from me. I think of it like an Age of Empires map. If you go into battle surrounded by undiscovered parts of the map, you're in for a rude surprise. Winning a battle means having clarity on both the battle itself and risks next to the battle.

Good analogy! Would be interesting to read more details about how you’re getting very high quality outputs

It's basically (1) don't make decisions for the LLM - force it to think (2) make it explore extensively (3) make it pressure test it's own thinking.

Re: AI coding is gambling

#395

Post by devanil »

leptons wrote: post #378
gpt5 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that scenario the 'joy of creation' would just shift to the 'joy of discovery'. Both of which are innate to humans.

Trust me, the two are not the same, and are orders of magnitude different in terms of human satisfaction. When I walk down a street, I get 10 people stopping me to ask "Where did you get that?". When I tell them I made it, their heads explode. I know which side of that interaction is more satisfying. We also go all-out for Halloween, and at the big Halloween festival there is literally a line down the street of peopl…

Do you think that creation only comes with hard work?

Re: AI coding is gambling

#396

Post by sixtyj »

leptons wrote: post #378
gpt5 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that scenario the 'joy of creation' would just shift to the 'joy of discovery'. Both of which are innate to humans.

Trust me, the two are not the same, and are orders of magnitude different in terms of human satisfaction. When I walk down a street, I get 10 people stopping me to ask "Where did you get that?". When I tell them I made it, their heads explode. I know which side of that interaction is more satisfying. We also go all-out for Halloween, and at the big Halloween festival there is literally a line down the street of peopl…

In media there was a rule 1-9-90. One creates, 9 comment, 90 use or are silent/don’t care.

Richard Branson realized that a company starts to behave differently when it reaches more than stuff of 135 people that coincides with average number of people you can consider as personally known to you.

Context switching is a bitch. You cannot do it for a long time. Abundance brought by AI will somehow consolidate as people cannot digest everything created by it.

There are more than 45,000 models avail at HF (if I remember it right). Choose wisely :)

Re: AI coding is gambling

#397

Post by devanil »

jarjoura wrote: post #371
itsgrimetime wrote: post #92

All of this new capability has made me realize that the reason i love programming _isn't_ the same as the OP. I used to think (and tell others) that I loved understanding something deeply, wading through the details to figure out a tough problem. but actually, being able to will anything I can think of into existence is what I love about programming. I do feel for the people who were able to make careers out of falli…

I'd say, you are at the phase of this journey where you're feeling empowered. It's just one step along the path of AI adoption to execute on an idea and see in near real-time the idea you had baked in your head come alive in front of you. Most of us get to this point and become the biggest evangelists of the tech. I see no reason you should feel guilty for the excitement you're feeling right now, and you should enjoy…

Don't you think that's overreacting? I know it's an important moment for us, but your speech sounds kind of theological. Almost condemning him to hell for "feeling pleasure."

Re: AI coding is gambling

#400

Post by possiblydrunk »

itsgrimetime wrote: post #92

All of this new capability has made me realize that the reason i love programming _isn't_ the same as the OP. I used to think (and tell others) that I loved understanding something deeply, wading through the details to figure out a tough problem. but actually, being able to will anything I can think of into existence is what I love about programming. I do feel for the people who were able to make careers out of falli…

Fair assessment, but you seem to love "creating" rather than "programming", not that there's anything wrong with that! Pondering the merits of AI has made me realize the opposite -- I love the process and challenge of creating (the programming) even more than the final product. AI is undoubtedly helpful, but when it solves my problem for me I'm not nearly as satisfied? as if I'd solved it myself. It's like copy-pasting an answer from StackOverflow, but for a whole program. I doubt my employer will share my feelings, and I'll have to use increasingly more AI to keep up the productivity.
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