Live data from Hacker News

Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

github.com

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#391
I'm not sure I fully grok the hypothesis that Meta is materially advantaged by pushing for OS-level age verification. I suppose its another intelligence signal for ad targeting, but they have to believe that at least on platforms like iOS this signal is going to be obfuscated from them. Its hard to believe it'd be any more valuable than the other non-verified heuristics they're already gathering.

Arguably they would be more materially advantaged if they were forced to KYC/validate ages, not the platform; because sure, there's a cost to doing it, but presumably having hard data on who your customer actually is, with age and address and everything, is worth a lot more than the verification cost. And being able to say "We're legally required to gather this" gives a lot of PR cover (even though it'd be followed with "but we're giddy to do so and we will abuse this data and you every way we possibly can. No one at Meta believes you are human. We hate you as much as you hate us, but we're stuck in this together, endlessly loathing the supernatural force that keeps us working together.")

But, On the flip side: I also don't doubt that Meta is doing this, because the purpose of a system is what it does, and the leadership at Meta has done nothing in the past four years to demonstrate that they're capable of cogent thought and execution. We want to believe there's some evil plan, and maybe there is, but in all likelihood one day we'll learn that they're just... unintelligent.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#392
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they want market share, and throwing a hissyfit over being asked to add an "I am over 18" checkbox is not good PR. If Debian starts refusing to work in California because it doesn't want to add a checkbox, it will simply be replaced by someone who adds that checkbox and doesn't throw the fit.

As the article says, it's not about just checking a box: "Every OS provider must then: provide an interface at account setup collecting a birth date or age, and expose a real-time API that broadcasts the user's age bracket (under 13, 13 to 15, 16 to 17, 18+) to any application running on the system."

[deleted]

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#393

Age verification is merely the background task to set up infrastructure for OS to provide many many other signals about who's using the device. Age signals from the OS? Need to provide a channel of information available to applications. Applications already talk to servers with unchecked commonality. Biometric data? Today it unlocks your private key. Tomorrow it's used to verify you are the same person that was used…

[flagged]

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it feels that the age verfication (adult de-anonymisation) push, at least in Europe, is coming more from the increasingly-authoritarian left as a reaction to the rise of the online right and Musk's Twitter. (Maybe some unspoken element of concern over social media bots, too - as they evolve from spamming copy+pasted comments to being near-indistinguisable from actual human accounts?)

If you look at the people pushing these bills it's the anti-trans and anti-porn activists. Not the left.

In the UK we have many people on the left with these perspectives. It comes from the second-wave feminist tradition.

But generally speaking, online age verification is one of those issues where the left-right ideological divide doesn't map neatly. People support and oppose it for various different reasons. Much like the assisted suicide issue.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#396
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steelman argument is that parents are not necessarily up to date on the technology, and cannot reasonably be expected to supervise teenagers 24/7 up to the age of 18. Compare movie ratings or alcohol laws, for example: there's a non-parental obligation on third parties not to provide alcohol to children or let them in to R18 showings. But the implementation matters, and almost all of these bills internationally a…

That steelman still stands on a core assumption that its both the state's responsibility and right to step in and parent on everyone's behalf. Maybe a majority of people today agree with that, but I know I don't and I never hear that assumption debated directly.

> I never hear that assumption debated directly.

The idea of the "nanny state" has been debated a lot, and this seems like a very literal example of that. But once some status quo is firmly entrenched, debate about it tends to die down because the majority of people no longer care enough about it.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#397
post #135
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with ZKP this is still highly problematic, it create difficulty for undocumented people to access the web, create ton of phishing opportunity, reinforce censorship on most site (as they will now all need to be minor compliant or need age verification), reinforce the chilling effect and make the web even less crawlable/archivable (or you need to give a valid citizen ID to your crawler/archiver). With no proof it…

>it create difficulty for undocumented people to access the web Why is this such a sticking point in US politics? If the "undocumented" people aren't supposed to be in the country in the first place, why should rest of society cater to them? Even if you're against age verification for other reasons, dragging in the immigration angle is just going to alienate the other half of the population who don't share your view…

I don't think it's "catering to them" to avoid passing laws that impose undue burden. For example, if you passed a law requiring a US passport to buy food in the US, and made it so all restaurants and grocery stores are required to check passports before selling food to anyone, I would be opposed to that law, and part of the reason is that I don't think it should be hard for anyone to get food, whether they have a US passport or not.

"Undocumented" doesn't mean "residing illegally" anyway, it just means "lacking documents", which is a state that many perfectly legitimate US citizens find themselves in. But we should want people who are here illegally and everyone else to be able to use the world wide web and computers regardless of their legal status, just like everyone should be allowed to eat and buy food regardless of their legal status, because that's just basic humanity.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#398

Age verification is merely the background task to set up infrastructure for OS to provide many many other signals about who's using the device. Age signals from the OS? Need to provide a channel of information available to applications. Applications already talk to servers with unchecked commonality. Biometric data? Today it unlocks your private key. Tomorrow it's used to verify you are the same person that was used…

“This isn’t freedom, this is fear”

Cpt America in the Winter Soldier

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#399
What I find interesting is how this legislation suddenly leads to some open project give in and submit - see MidnightBSD wishing to spy on people via a daemon now. Linux will probably follow suit via systemd; an appropriate name would be systemd-sniffy, to sniff for user data and warn the authorities "WARNING - 15 YEARS OLD IS WATCHING SOME P..., SHUT DOWN THE HOUSE!!!". And the legislation calls this safety. And freedom.

It is like in the novel 1984. But stupid. Probably more like minority report - but also stupid. All aided by Meta bribing lobbyists to do their bidding.

Re: Meta Platforms: Lobbying, dark money, and the App Store Accountability Act

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody stops the government from sending goons to your door right now for a snarky comment. Some govts in fact do it today. It is also cheaper than ai rocket and more precise too

Who needs rockets when you have autonomous mini drones

But you don't have autonomous mini drones, only the leader of the free world does.
Post reply on HN