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Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

geohot.github.io

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Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#391

Post by jurgenburgen »

DrewADesign wrote: post #368
keiferski wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you’re legitimately providing value to the company, you aren’t disposable. If you are but still get canned, then you’re just dealing with irrational management, and that predates AI.

The problem isn’t whether or not companies need us— it’s about how many of us they need (demand), and how many of us there are (supply), because that determines our value. Companies pay people what they’ll work for, not based on how much they contribute to the bottom line; in economics, paying more than you have to for anything, including labor, is the irrational path. A steady, high demand for software developers ha…

Software is already fantastically profitable. Productive SaaS companies right now collect ~500k in revenue per employee.

If what you describe happens (33% cut to salaries) then the bar for your own startup to be worth it is suddenly lower.

If large companies don’t pay us good salaries then why would we not go and build better competitors without the legacy and dead weight?

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#392

Post by ap99 »

edgyquant wrote: post #277
swiftcoder wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's got a winning track record What exactly would that be a winning track record in - as near as I can tell, his actual track record is in buying companies with an already-successful product team, and managing not to run them into the ground for a while?

You have got to be kidding me, you can dislike someone without being this wrong. Hes literally the richest man in the world, started the largest space delivery company in the planet and has brought extreme returns for his investors in every endeavor he’s undertook.

There are a ton of haters on HN that don't like Musk for no other reason than they were told not to like him.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#393

Post by ap99 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #250
ap99 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be a fanboy to respect outcomes. He's got a winning track record. You may not agree with his politics or his morals but that's separate from his effectiveness. Specifically he's effective at stepping outside the domain he currently operates into create inside another.

Effectively helping elect a dictator who is in love with fossil fuels undercuts at lot of his "wins". Never mind the Nazi saluting, fraudulent advertising, or bypassing safety regulations.

Which dictator are you referring to?

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#394

Post by Lord-Jobo »

keiferski wrote: post #346
harimau777 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still seems super naive, at least if its extended to software engineering. Companies already treat software engineers like disposable cogs to be burnt out and discarded. I don't see how AI will improve that.

I think if you’re legitimately providing value to the company, you aren’t disposable. If you are but still get canned, then you’re just dealing with irrational management, and that predates AI.

The value-cost ratio is all that matters to a company. Yes, that implies that they are assuming all variations of value are achievable by AI which isn’t true and probably won’t ever be. But they do think that, nearly all of them. Because they don’t understand value. This has been true since the very first corporation. And that’s the problem. They will see a totally cheesed and squeezed metric telling them AI can reach 40% of the value of a “ ___ engineer “ at 10% of the cost and lay off engineers until shit starts exploding. And the stock market will strongly reward that decision.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#395

Post by [deleted] »

ramraj07 wrote: post #259
hombre_fatal wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think HN needs the top comment to be a vague attack on someone in response to a blog post that the comment doesn't even interact with.

Not everyone knows who geohot is and even if they do they may not see the url handle. They may (like me) think why is a glorified shower thought tweet on top of HN. They may not know that this dude was an anti-masker (with nuance) for example. This could really make them decide not to even spend too much time thinking about the passage which in theory is profound for 10 seconds but no further. As much as ad hominem a…

[deleted]

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#396

Post by Sammi »

keiferski wrote: post #323
peepee1982 wrote: post #174

[flagged]

He’s written some posts I disagree with, but your comment here has no rebuttal, no counter arguments. I’m not sure you’ve even read the post.

It's context. So you know who the guy is if you're new to his writing.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#397

Post by ap99 »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #255
ap99 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be a fanboy to respect outcomes. He's got a winning track record. You may not agree with his politics or his morals but that's separate from his effectiveness. Specifically he's effective at stepping outside the domain he currently operates into create inside another.

As a 2018 Tesla owner I strongly disagree with the idea that Elon's got a track record of success. The Model Y was their last successful product and it's just a stretched Model 3. FSD is not there. Robotaxi is an embarrassment. Cybertruck failed to deliver the gigacasted exoskeleton and shipped at double the original price point. Tesla has lost its way completely. (Also, Twitter has lost users and revenue ever since…

Ok now say three things that Elon has accomplished successfully in the past few years.

If you can't then you're just speaking from emotion because they obviously exist.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#398

Post by shpongled »

zozbot234 wrote: post #280
ramraj07 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone knows who geohot is and even if they do they may not see the url handle. They may (like me) think why is a glorified shower thought tweet on top of HN. They may not know that this dude was an anti-masker (with nuance) for example. This could really make them decide not to even spend too much time thinking about the passage which in theory is profound for 10 seconds but no further. As much as ad hominem a…

> They may not know that this dude was an anti-masker (with nuance) for example. Why are we supposed to care about that? There was a time when "masks do not work" was very much the conventional wisdom.

The title is >Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns.

Isn't being an anti-masker the opposite of this viewpoint? Literally saying, I only care about the returns for myself, even if creates negative value for others.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#399

Post by DrewADesign »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #391
DrewADesign wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t whether or not companies need us— it’s about how many of us they need (demand), and how many of us there are (supply), because that determines our value. Companies pay people what they’ll work for, not based on how much they contribute to the bottom line; in economics, paying more than you have to for anything, including labor, is the irrational path. A steady, high demand for software developers ha…

Software is already fantastically profitable. Productive SaaS companies right now collect ~500k in revenue per employee. If what you describe happens (33% cut to salaries) then the bar for your own startup to be worth it is suddenly lower. If large companies don’t pay us good salaries then why would we not go and build better competitors without the legacy and dead weight?

Go for it. I got out of that ridiculous ouroboro of an industry years ago. That might be great for you, but surely you can’t imagine VC funding enough startups to save the software labor market? The tech workforce is giant. Do you think there are tens or hundreds of thousands of ways to make unique new software products where even a single digit percentage are commercially viable? Software isn’t fungible: it needs to solve specific problems that people have, and do it well enough to deal with the hassle of switching software.

This isn’t an individual problem— it’s an industry-wide problem.

(I pulled the 2/3 number out of a hat to illustrate the point. I put exactly zero analysis into that.)

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#400

Post by StilesCrisis »

ap99 wrote: post #397
StilesCrisis wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 2018 Tesla owner I strongly disagree with the idea that Elon's got a track record of success. The Model Y was their last successful product and it's just a stretched Model 3. FSD is not there. Robotaxi is an embarrassment. Cybertruck failed to deliver the gigacasted exoskeleton and shipped at double the original price point. Tesla has lost its way completely. (Also, Twitter has lost users and revenue ever since…

Ok now say three things that Elon has accomplished successfully in the past few years. If you can't then you're just speaking from emotion because they obviously exist.

I don't launch rockets into space, don't want a housekeeping robot, don't have a Twitter account, don't do ketamine, and have never been laid off from a government job, so I can't speak to any of those things which Elon has involved himself with more recently.

My personal experience with Elon's promises is through the Model 3 which I do own, and essentially none of his promises for it have materialized. It hasn't morphed into a revenue-generating taxi which drives around strangers at night; it can't be summoned from across town (or even across a parking lot); it can't even safely drive itself without oversight, which was a goal only "months away" in 2019.

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