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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#391

Post by Vinnl »

well_ackshually wrote: post #225
Vinnl wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're stuck on Android 17, which is centuries of work ahead of literally anything else in the open source community. It's far ahead, but at the same time, I think we shouldn't over-emphasise how much. Functionality at the beginning of a project's lifetime is way more important than incremental improvements (or just changes) made later, and thus while much more effort has been invested into Android, new projects pr…

Material 3 is mostly not part of the AOSP tree (aside from some very, very deep code like shadows) and is just UI libraries. I actually wonder if M3 has View implementations, or if everything has been migrated to Compose. You're also underestimating the amount of fundamental work that goes in Android. The vast majority is hardware integration. It's not all fancy little bells and whistles. It would have the added bene…

I'm not saying it won't be a lot of work, and I'm not saying it'll be at feature parity in five years. But I'm saying that we shouldn't assume it'll take as much work/as long as it got Android to get to the current point, to get to the point where it's viable for some use. For example, when a usability baseline for some common usage patterns is achieved, it could be at the point where some external event could push a hardware vendor to start experimenting with specific support.

(I'll also note that there has been a lot of non-"fancy little bells and whistles" work that has been going on in the Linux world, specifically with lots of lessons learned from mobile. Think atomic distros, and sandboxing, for example.)

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#392

Post by JCattheATM »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #390
JCattheATM wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). They do, they just don't want to. Typing a short letter and mailing it is very little effort. Less so with AI these days.

An AI generated letter isn’t going to get my utility company to drop their explicitly chosen practice of blocking VPN’s. These aren’t oversights, these are deliberate practices.

'AI generated' is irrelevant here, they wouldn't know and it's just a time saver in response to the 'people don't have enough time' excuse.

That's a weird one though, if you have alternatives you could always switch.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#393

Post by jollyllama »

wolvoleo wrote: post #383
jollyllama wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the big deal? Brave's native adblocker works pretty well.

For me it's uBlock origin or bust :) I have a lot of custom rules in it too.

Fair enough, to each their own. I don't know if it's configurable at a file level but in the Brave settings you kind of can add your own rules. And you do have a point if the inability to use custom rules in private mode is enabled. It's pretty pernicious how they disabled that.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#394

Post by RandyOrion »

goldenarm wrote: post #214
RandyOrion wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions Ungoogled chromium still supports MV2, and uBlock origin extension works fine.

Yes it's behind a flag, but the removal of MV2 from multiple parts of the codebase is imminent.

Google's stance on MV2 and MV3 is definitely affecting every chromium-based projects.

> but the removal of MV2 from multiple parts of the codebase is imminent.

Is there any evidence showing that ungoogled chromium project is considering that?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#395

Post by Forgeties79 »

JCattheATM wrote: post #392
Forgeties79 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AI generated letter isn’t going to get my utility company to drop their explicitly chosen practice of blocking VPN’s. These aren’t oversights, these are deliberate practices.

'AI generated' is irrelevant here, they wouldn't know and it's just a time saver in response to the 'people don't have enough time' excuse. That's a weird one though, if you have alternatives you could always switch.

My only alternative is to not have natural gas

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#396

Post by bornfreddy »

chopin wrote: post #333
bornfreddy wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who switched from FP4 with /e/OS to GrapheneOS - absolutely not true. My reason for switching was a bug where the phone calls didn't display the caller number. So I switched to GOS in hope it would be better... and it is, but not in all areas. For example their insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, because let's face it, you can't trust Google services, even sandboxed, to not syphon tons of…

That's strange, I have exactly the same combo and I can see the caller numbers just fine... Doesn't seem a universal bug.

It is not, it is related to both major phone service providers in my country. Abroad, everything worked just fine. And just in 4G/5G, however 3G is getting phased out, so if I forced it, I was often unreachable.

I was wondering if I could fix it myself, but I'm not even sure if this is firmware or OS issue. I assume the former, which afaik is not opensource? Not sure.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#397

Post by bornfreddy »

ysnp wrote: post #330
bornfreddy wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who switched from FP4 with /e/OS to GrapheneOS - absolutely not true. My reason for switching was a bug where the phone calls didn't display the caller number. So I switched to GOS in hope it would be better... and it is, but not in all areas. For example their insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, because let's face it, you can't trust Google services, even sandboxed, to not syphon tons of…

I am not a project member so I cannot speak for GrapheneOS, but maybe I can help clear up some misunderstandings. > insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, The problem they are trying to solve is apps not working without the presence of Google Mobile Services or Google Play. They don't want to compromise by having a component with high privileges integrated in their image that involves security issues l…

To put my answer in context, I was replying to this:

> There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists.

There absolutely is. If I was choosing again today I would be tempted to switch back, for the reasons I listed. And I would probably miss many things you cited, like Storage and Contact Scopes.

As for MicroG, afaik I can't use it on GOS without considerable effort (recompiling OS) and probably also ongoing maintenance burden (updates). So this is not an option for me, FP5 with /e/OS is still better then.

NetGuard - very nice answer, shows exactly what you and GOS developers are missing! Yes, the actively hostile apps will exfiltrate data as soon as you let them contact anything on the outside. But most of the apps are by incompetent/lazy/pressured devs who just throw in some library and don't even care that it leaks data to Google. For example my banking app. Why the hell should Google be notified when I decide to open my banking app? If I cut its network, as you suggested, the app stops working. But if I just blacklist Google site for this app, the problem is solved. Of course, I don't want to cut it for all apps, because then some might not work. And that's just one of many similar examples.

That's why I said that the main focus of GOS is security, not privacy. If they cared about privacy primarily, they would actively support microG and NetGuard, or at least similar solutions.

That said, I am actually a fan of GrapheneOS, it is just so frustrating that we can't have it all in one package. Ah well.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#398

Post by bornfreddy »

abustamam wrote: post #291
bornfreddy wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.

Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care. Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.

> It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news.

Do they? News is usually the first thing that is replaced by propaganda.

But yes, everyone chooses the battles they wish to fight. None are easy.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#399

Post by abustamam »

JCattheATM wrote: post #392
Forgeties79 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AI generated letter isn’t going to get my utility company to drop their explicitly chosen practice of blocking VPN’s. These aren’t oversights, these are deliberate practices.

'AI generated' is irrelevant here, they wouldn't know and it's just a time saver in response to the 'people don't have enough time' excuse. That's a weird one though, if you have alternatives you could always switch.

Not sure where you live but in much of California, there are no alternatives for most utilities. Water, gas, electric often only have one singular provider in many regions.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#400

Post by abustamam »

bornfreddy wrote: post #398
abustamam wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care. Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.

> It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. Do they? News is usually the first thing that is replaced by propaganda. But yes, everyone chooses the battles they wish to fight. None are easy.

Perhaps, but a recent example is ICE in Minnesota. The administration tried its best to spin it to match its propaganda but many people saw through it.
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