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Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

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Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#391

Post by peteforde »

anon7000 wrote: post #390
bandrami wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did a great job arguing my point: it's a market in the tens of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of units, so somewhere between saltwater aquaria and golf

I think you’ve done a good job disproving your point that no one is buying them. Golf is a very popular hobby. The point of this thread: the maker movement isn’t dead simply because most people don’t care about CNC machines. In reality, there are loads of makers & people who love tinkering and building things for themselves, it’s easier than ever to do so (and to build very non-trivial products for yourself), and mor…

Also, there is a massive tropical aquarium store in a random strip mall a few blocks from my house. It takes up like three units.

I don't know why I let myself get triggered by some rando who has convinced himself that just because he doesn't do something it must not be popular, but here I am.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#392

Post by peteforde »

klodolph wrote: post #383
peteforde wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable question and hopefully an interesting answer... The simple lack of reasons to use TTL logic in 2026 was exactly why I didn't know what the deal was. It'd never come up, but I'd see it referenced. I'm self-taught and in defiance of the people who insist that LLMs turn our brains to passive mush, the more things I learn the more things I have to be curious about. LLMs remove the gatekeeping around asking "si…

What was the answer? I’m just curious at this point about what the quality of the answer is, just because you made a point about LLM use not turning your brain into mush. I’ve not really used LLMs to answer questions, since it hasn’t gotten me the answers I wanted, but maybe I’m just set in my ways.

I'm actually pretty thrilled that you asked, because I think that this chat is an extremely solid example of LLM usage in the EE domain, and I'm happy to share.

https://chatgpt.com/share/69a184b0-7c38-8012-b36d-c3f2cefc13...

I definitely led some questions to try and squeeze new-to-me perspectives out of it; for example, there could be tricks that make the active high variant more useful in some scenarios.

I think it does a good job of surfacing adjacent questions you might not realize you were eager to ask, as well as showing how it's able to critically evaluate real-world part suitability. I do find that ChatGPT in particular does better with a screengrab of the most likely parts vs a URL to the search engine.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#393

Post by peteforde »

latexr wrote: post #388
peteforde wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad that you brought that up, because I actually hovered on my response precisely because of those words. Specifically, I wondered if I could reliably count on someone showing up to say something patronizing and unnecessary. This particular combination of snark, faux-concern and pedantry doesn't help the point you're trying to make about my loving AI wife.

It was not my intention to be patronising nor snarky, nor was I the least bit concerned for you (faux or otherwise). Though on a reread I do understand how my reply can be understood as unkind. I regret that and apologise for it. It was not my intention but it was my mistake. I should’ve made it shorter: > It’s not a person, It’s a tool. There’s no reason to anthropomorphise it.

Fair enough; I appreciate the follow-up.

Without wanting to be argumentative, I would push back and say that I really did stop to consider my implied assignment of personhood before committing to it. I went with it because it reflects both the role it plays - you'll be relieved that I stopped short of deploying "mentor" - and the fact that English is highly adaptable and already the linguistic tug to use They feels very comfortable in relation to LLMs. Buckle up!

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#394

Post by latexr »

peteforde wrote: post #393
latexr wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not my intention to be patronising nor snarky, nor was I the least bit concerned for you (faux or otherwise). Though on a reread I do understand how my reply can be understood as unkind. I regret that and apologise for it. It was not my intention but it was my mistake. I should’ve made it shorter: > It’s not a person, It’s a tool. There’s no reason to anthropomorphise it.

Fair enough; I appreciate the follow-up. Without wanting to be argumentative, I would push back and say that I really did stop to consider my implied assignment of personhood before committing to it. I went with it because it reflects both the role it plays - you'll be relieved that I stopped short of deploying "mentor" - and the fact that English is highly adaptable and already the linguistic tug to use They feels v…

> you'll be relieved that I stopped short of deploying "mentor"

Funnily enough, I think that might’ve been better. I don’t think a mentor has to necessarily be human; one can learn from nature or pets. Or even a machine: Stockfish can teach you to play better chess and give context as to why you fumbled and how to do better next time.

I just don’t think LLMs are people and that we should avoid anthropomorphising them (for a whole plethora of reasons which are another discussion). I’m not even saying I think there could never be a robot which is a person. Just not what we have now.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#395

Post by the_af »

auggierose wrote: post #381
the_af wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to tell any more. Wait, I think I have the answer! "You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over. But it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why…

What's a tortoise? What desert? How come I'd be there?

Maybe you're fed up. Maybe you want to be by yourself. Who knows?

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#396

Post by the_af »

cobolexpert wrote: post #255
the_af wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to tell any more. Wait, I think I have the answer! "You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over. But it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why…

What do you mean I'm not helping?

I mean you're not helping. Why is that?

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#397

Post by imtringued »

jvanderbot wrote: post #69
jmull wrote: post #64

> The central promise—that distributed digital fabrication would bring manufacturing back to America, that every city would have micro-factories, that 3D printing would decentralize production—simply didn’t materialize. I never heard that. It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale, did it? Units per hour and dollars per unit was never its strength. It was…

> It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale No, it never seemed that way to the realists, but it was said to seem that way to the makerspheres.

I personally wouldn't trust the 3D-printing community. The pre-bambu lab days were pretty bleak.

Print quality is everything when it comes to 3D printing. The printing quality must keep increasing if 3D prints are to be used as finished products. People should stop printing STL artifacts into their prints. Layer lines must fade away into invisibility. Top surfaces must be impeccably smooth without any stepping. New coatings need to be developed for texturing 3d printed parts and the parts need to be ready for coating right from the print bed.

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#398

Post by esseph »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #387
wongarsu wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, a non-engineer can't just spin up the next great app. Even with the newest models and a great prompting/testing system, I don't think you can just spit out high quality, maintainable, reliable code I think most engineers vastly overestimate how important high quality, maintainable, reliable code is to product success. Yes, you need an experienced engineer to steer Claude into making good high-quality code. But…

> I think most engineers vastly overestimate how important high quality, maintainable, reliable code is to product success. Rather: Many software developers overestimate how important high quality, maintainable, reliable code is to initial product success . Once the product is highly successful, a high quality, maintainable, reliable code pays huge dividends - and I have a strong feeling that most business people vas…

Vibecoding to production and $1mil ARR (random number) now proves out the application basics and market value which pays for it to be redone correctly :)

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#399

Post by aleph_minus_one »

Animats wrote: post #378
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can use a milling to mill a bunch of pieces for a milling machine. Now that CNC mills get more affordable, people are starting to get vocal about their visions of a self-milling CNC mill. :-)

A classic manual Bridgeport mill, a foundry for making castings, a heat-treating furnace, a steel planer, a lathe, a drill press, a grinder, and a supply of steel is enough for a master machinist to reproduce all that. That's what was used to make machine tools in the first half of the 20th century.

... and now work on

- how these machining processes can be automatized, and

- how the cost, space requirements and noise levels for these machines can be reduced so that every ambitious maker can have them in their apartment

Voila, the start of a home manufacturing revolution ...

Re: Will vibe coding end like the maker movement?

#400

Post by aleph_minus_one »

imtringued wrote: post #397
jvanderbot wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn’t seem like 3D-printing ever showed sings of displacing existing ways of manufacturing at scale No, it never seemed that way to the realists, but it was said to seem that way to the makerspheres.

I personally wouldn't trust the 3D-printing community. The pre-bambu lab days were pretty bleak. Print quality is everything when it comes to 3D printing. The printing quality must keep increasing if 3D prints are to be used as finished products. People should stop printing STL artifacts into their prints. Layer lines must fade away into invisibility. Top surfaces must be impeccably smooth without any stepping. New c…

> Layer lines must fade away into invisibility.

The layer lines are much less pronounced when you use a 0.25 mm nozzle with an appropriate layer height instead of a 0.4 mm nozzle (the possible quality is even on the brink to satisfy people who use 3D printing for producing miniatures). The prize you need to pay is of course the print time.

> Top surfaces must be impeccably smooth without any stepping.

In the last years there was a lot of progress on ironing features in slicers, which mitigates this issue:

> https://help.prusa3d.com/article/ironing_177488

Another very recent addition to mitigate the perceived problem is the recent addition of "fuzzy skin" features in slicers, which by making the surfaces look "more rough" hides the imperfections of the FDM printing process.

--

Another solution is to simply use resin printing instead of FDM printing for finished products if feasible.

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