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The happiest I've ever been

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Re: The happiest I've ever been

#391

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

somenameforme wrote: post #390
lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course! No one expects a bunch of western weebs to save Japan's demographics. Obviously, Japan will have to change their insular culture and work ethics, if they attempt to deal with the problem by significantly increasing immigration. Yet there are many western countries where the issue is how to prevent all the people attempting to get in from doing so.

The people America is trying to prevent from coming in are largely low skill, low education, generally do not speak the language, and so on. These people are no more a solution than our idealistic weebs. In most cases, they're rather worse off since weebs at least tend to have language and other skills, but are trying to move to a place that doesn't exist.

> The people America is trying to prevent from coming in are largely low skill, low education, generally do not speak the language, and so on.

US also put a lot of roadblocks in a way of highly skilled immigration. For example, check the waiting time of Indian engineers to obtain Green card.

> These people are no more a solution than our idealistic weebs.

Not sure I agree with this assessment. Unskilled immigrants tend to be over-represented on hard low-paying jobs, both in EU and US. Someone has to build, pave roads, cook, deliver, tend of elderly, etc.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#392

Post by graemep »

sublinear wrote: post #356
graemep wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be polarising the choices. You do not have to have a big family or no kids at all. I have two kids. For the vast majority people nothing else they can do with their lives will be anywhere near as fulfilling as having children. There are exceptions, of course, but it takes something like an unusual personality, or a great commitment to something else (e.g. celibacy in religious orders etc.), or something e…

Sorry, I'm not trying to be polarizing. I'm trying to emphasize what I've learned at the extremes. That can inform a choice much more clearly. The outcomes of the children are directly correlated with the quality of the relationship the parents have. No relationship I've ever seen, then or now, seems to be stable enough to do much better. In my case, they made up for it with love and attention that brought plenty of…

I do not think you are deliberately trying to be polarising and I can understand why you feel the way you do.

I think where we disagree is that I am more optimistic and I think you have higher expectations of what is needed to give children a life worth living. There is a lot of pressure on parents to be perfect.

For example, I agree about outcomes being correlated with the quality of relationships parents have, but its not the only factor. I brought up my kids for many years in a deteriorating marriage, and in the last few years by ex-wife became increasingly emotionally abusive towards me and the children in the last few years of our marriage. That was painful for them, but there were a lot of happy times in their childhood before that.

In terms of outcomes they are balanced, kind people with great relationships with everyone in their lives except their mother. They have done well academically and the older one has a job she loves.

From my own point of view, I regret marrying my ex, but I do not regret having children with her.

The fear of bringing up kids who become extremists or other bad outcomes is reasonable, but its always been a problem. I love what Kahil Gibran says about this: https://poets.org/poem/children-1 Its a small risk as very few people are like extremists on social media, and the rewards are enormous.

I do think there are social problems in both developing good relationships, and in lack of social and financial support for bringing up children. We make parenting far to difficult these days.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#393

Post by somenameforme »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #391
somenameforme wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people America is trying to prevent from coming in are largely low skill, low education, generally do not speak the language, and so on. These people are no more a solution than our idealistic weebs. In most cases, they're rather worse off since weebs at least tend to have language and other skills, but are trying to move to a place that doesn't exist.

> The people America is trying to prevent from coming in are largely low skill, low education, generally do not speak the language, and so on. US also put a lot of roadblocks in a way of highly skilled immigration. For example, check the waiting time of Indian engineers to obtain Green card. > These people are no more a solution than our idealistic weebs. Not sure I agree with this assessment. Unskilled immigrants te…

You've gotta separate cause and effect, especially when these things will change in the future. For instance decades ago I had family that worked in construction. They were earning about $20/hour in a rural area back when that was quite a lot of money, even in an urban area.

It was enough that, even with the on-off nature of the work (you're not getting paid when nothing's getting built), they could easily raise a large family very comfortably. Now a day construction in the US pays awfully and a big factor is the large number of illegal migrants working in it for sub-market wages. So you're talking about the necessity of solving a problem by expanding the thing that caused it.

It's very difficult to predict what demographic collapse will look like in a place like the US, but one general trend that might inform us is that fertility within places like the US remains strongly inversely correlated with income. Those who are earning a lot aren't having children, those who aren't earning much - are. Pair that alongside fairly low upward mobility, and again I think it's unlikely that significant numbers of unskilled workers will have any real value in the future (or present).

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#394

Post by opo »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #176
cheema33 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're retiring later and later, working more per week That may be true. But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no. > purchasing power is going down That is not a new thing. > quality of goods is going down Phones are better. Computers are better. Cars, planes, washing machines ... > life expectancy is decreasing On the whole, this is…

> But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no. If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace, prosperity, cheap education, cheap housing, only single parent needs to work, stronger community network, less overpopulation, better access to doctors, better wealth equality, and you get to partake in the first…

>If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace,

I think after you got your draft notice in the 1960s to go fight in the Vietnam war, you might have had second thoughts.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#395

Post by deepsun »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #143
deepsun wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime rates going down and down. Purchasing power grows everywhere in the world (but we want much nicer things now, so don't feel it). Travel is more accessible that it ever was in humanity history. Information keeps getting more and more accessible. And literacy rates are increasing . I don't know why you say it's not, just google "literacy rates trend".

Efficiency gains have primarily benefited the capital owners. Workers ability to buy essentials like housing and healthcare have not gotten worse, not better. I can cover every wall of my living space in flat screen color television more cheaply than feed, house, heal, and educate another child in my family.

No, travel and information accessibility and crime rates benefited everyone.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#396

Post by __turbobrew__ »

opo wrote: post #394
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, if somebody offered me a time machine to travel back in time and live at any point in history, would I take it? Hell no. If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace, prosperity, cheap education, cheap housing, only single parent needs to work, stronger community network, less overpopulation, better access to doctors, better wealth equality, and you get to partake in the first…

>If given a choice I would rather be born in 1940s. 80 years of relative peace, I think after you got your draft notice in the 1960s to go fight in the Vietnam war, you might have had second thoughts.

I am Canadian, so no I wouldn’t be going to Nam.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#397

Post by strangegecko »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #386
profunctor wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it so that they don’t birth and rear but instead birth and then rear with a partner who will contribute equally. Also financial subsidies so that a child becomes at least neutral in terms of cost. Social help to make raising a child less exhausting. Improve the climate to that we can be positive about the child’s future. All difficult but not impossible.

> Make it so that they don’t birth and rear but instead birth and then rear with a partner who will contribute equally. Also financial subsidies so that a child becomes at least neutral in terms of cost. Countries like Sweden and Norway have equal non-transferable paternity leaves and "free" daycare/education/healthcare. They birth rates are still nowhere near replacement levels. The hard truth seems to be that major…

> Please. Now is objectively the best, safest time to have children. When western societies had high birth rates the expectation was basically "it is a coin toss whether a child will survive until adulthood and then they will have to deal with wars, famines and epidemics".

This argument is rather one dimensional. If you're trying to solve the problem in modern developed society, you can't look to what happens at a more primal level, you need to address the actual concerns people are living with.

We have more choice and visibility into options and unfair power structures now, and unless your solution is to remove choice again, then looking back to a time when people depended on children for survival and safety isn't going to offer much relevant insight. Instead it's going to lock you into positions with no way out.

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#398

Post by strangegecko »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #280
arealaccount wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dont want to deal with kids Someone has to bring up the next generation, the no kids crowd want all the luxury of having the next generation without putting in the effort or spending the money.

That's a very instrumental and de-humanizing way to look at humans. Only as enablers of further enablement. Know that there is no inherent reason at all why there should be a next generation, if we, collectively, do not want one. Some are interested in this, others not, and that's perfectly fine. The assumption that humanity must, and shall, exist forever has no proof.

Agreed. I actually don't want more generations of humanity. The degree of abuse and destruction and selfishness is too depressing.

I grew up with emotional neglect and all sorts of mental health struggles that grew from that, so I find the cavalier attitude people have towards parenting and how people in the world treat each other in general appalling.

My parents (and honestly most, in my opinion) were not qualified to be parents. They were deeply broken themselves and didn't even have awareness of that.

I know humans could do better, but looking at the state of things, greed and hatred and aggression in all forms from interpersonal to wars are propagating themselves as the most successful traits. In a dog eat dog world, I'd much rather leave everything to animals, at least they don't destroy the entire planet when they maul each other

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#399

Post by ionwake »

littlexsparkee wrote: post #287
ionwake wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not necessarily connected to the number of people but the type - if they are all conservationists that would be a net positive, not counting OTT population numbers.

we're talking about aging in advanced economies - those are folks with heavy footprints. if the west could be content with africa's growth and allowing for more migration, this problem is licked.

i dont think I agree at all bro

Re: The happiest I've ever been

#400

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

layer8 wrote: post #302
harrall wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a third group of people: people who did it, got good at it, and got bored. I do both carpentry and programming and both activities have long since become repetitive. There are only so many dovetails or distributed systems you can make. That’s why I don’t care if AI can replace those parts. I’m in it to do the designing, not the crafting.

That would assume that the AI is as good at the repetitive parts as you were, which isn’t my experience. You still have to review and correct it, which is more boring and repetitive than implementing it yourself. But I also disagree about the getting bored on the “crafting”. It may depend on what you do, but there are always new design decisions and trade-offs to make all the way down. This isn’t a solved problem, an…

Considering that user is just a LLM output bot... It seems they aren't good at much.
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