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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#391

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

danny_codes wrote: post #387
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

I’ve found the mobile websites for a lot of these cases to be fine. Not a great UX but not a blocker

Wait till you see how hostile Reddit is when you try and access via a browser on a phone

Re: Keep Android Open

#392

Post by aryonoco »

cwillu wrote: post #299
arcanemachiner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this finally pushes adoption of truly open Linux phones, then this will end up being a good thing, and the greatest favor that Google could do for the open source community. Tragically, Linux phones have languished and are in an absolute state these days, but a lot of the building blocks are in place if user adoption occurs en masse. (Shout out to the lunatics who have kept this dream alive during these dark years…

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

I’m old enough to remember the days that banking apps required Internet Explorer and didn’t work on Firefox. Eventually, they were dragged kicking and screaming to support all modern browsers.

Re: Keep Android Open

#393

Post by nicoburns »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

Some banks' only interface is the mobile app. And in Europe people typically use their banking app for P2P payments (no need for an app like Venmo)

Re: Keep Android Open

#394

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

I want Google to lock down their platform. Hardcore locked down. So locked down you can't do anything with it at all. Because people need motivation to do something hard.

Android has been a bloated walled garden for years. It should have been like a PC w/Windows or Linux: anyone should be able to make an app (any way they want), publish it, let anyone who wants to download it & run it. But that was never the plan. The plan was to provide a moat to allow mobile telephone operators (& Google) to dictate what users were allowed to do with their phones. Imagine your ISP having total control over your desktop computer. Or killing a website, or program, because the ISP doesn't like it.

It is insane that we, the people giving them the money and agency to do this, that we've allowed this to be the status quo. We need to do something about it. We need to kill Android. And from the ashes, make a new platform that works for us, and not for a corporation's profits and anti-competition.

Re: Keep Android Open

#395

Post by kevincox »

blueg3 wrote: post #358
flaburgan wrote: post #337

Could anyone provide me some clarifications? If I understood correctly, to "protect" users, Google wants to control what is installed on Android phones. I guess it means the Play store will be the only way to install an app, which in turn means: - That users won't be able to install what they want and that they would need a google account to install apps - That app developers have to go through google to distribute t…

There's a lot of misinformation here. > I guess it means the Play store will be the only way to install an app No, non-Play stores will still work, but developers will need to register a developer account with Google that is tied to some real identity. They already need to do this to distribute through the Play store, but now it'll apply regardless. This is to make it harder for scam apps to churn app signatures. Kin…

I mostly agree with your points.

> > That users won't be able to install what they want

> No, sideloading will still work, but it won't work if the APK isn't signed by someone in the Google developer registry.

So the user can't install what they want. They can only install stuff signed by developers Google has "approved".

Yes, in the happy situation this is everything except for developers that Google has revoked. But technically it is only approved developers.

Re: Keep Android Open

#397

Post by stackghost »

drnick1 wrote: post #83
stackghost wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep it's definitely on my list but my Pixel is on its last legs and I'm considering going back to iOS.

I urge you not too. iOS is fully locked down -- Apple won't allow you to exert control over the hardware that you bought and own, it's shocking.

I've owned iPhones before, they're fine.

Re: Keep Android Open

#398

Post by dataflow »

dmitrygr wrote: post #127
microtonal wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how the European Union works. One of the core goals of the EU is to guarantee the European single market. One of the core principles of the single market is the Freedom to establish and provide services [1]. The Apple/Google duopoly have effectively created a market within the single market where the core principles of the single market do not apply anymore. Tech has a strong tendency to favor outcomes wi…

Yes. I am effectively asking you what the moral justification for DMA is. I understand that lawmakers can make whatever law they want. I understand they made it. I am curious how people who agree this should be possible think of this from a moral angle, especially as engineers who make their living by creating intellectual property and probably wouldn’t want to see control of it seized randomly

> especially as engineers who make their living by creating intellectual property and probably wouldn’t want to see control of it seized randomly

The premise of your question seems surprising.

1. In what sense the DMA enables seizure of control of intellectual property? I haven't heard of seizure being part of this.

2. In what sense DMA does so randomly? The DMA's rules seem to be written down, not random. Where are you seeing randomness?

Also:

3. One intention of regulation is that you don't want one (or a few) entities, regardless of what they are, to gain too much power over your citizens' lives. They want power to be distributed, just like to America's 3 branches of federal government were designed to distribute power. Could you explain what specifically you find difficult to understand about people finding it immoral to give a single entity too much power?

Re: Keep Android Open

#399

Post by singpolyma3 »

earth2mars wrote: post #302
fermigier wrote: post #62

It is a disgrace how Google has managed this situation. To recap the storyline, as far as I understand it: last August, Google announced plans to heavily restrict sideloading. Following community pushback, they promised an "advanced flow" for power users. The media widely reported this as a walk-back, leading users to assume the open ecosystem was safe. But this promised feature hasn't appeared in any Android 16 or 1…

The only reason I was sticking to Android for years is this. And I think there is no moat for Android. I would rather switch to iOS if both platforms are same restrictive.

You'll miss having a keyboard that works

Re: Keep Android Open

#400

Post by singpolyma3 »

post-it wrote: post #201
retired wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing restricting side-loading isn't legal in the European Union! Not a problem here. Apple had to enable side-loading on their EU-based phones and so will Google if they restrict it.

Yes it is, and no they didn't. Apple has to allow (heavily restricted) alternative app stores, and I'm not clear on whether any actually exist right now.

https://altstore.io/
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