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An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

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Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of OpenClaw bots is that they don't have (much) human oversight, right? It certainly seems like the human wasn't even aware of the bot's blog post until after the bot had written and posted it. He then told it to be more professional, and I assume that's why the bot followed up with an apology.

So what? You're still responsible for the output, even if you yourself think you can hide behind "well, it was the computer, no way for me to control that"

I don't think that's true, actually. You aren't responsible for things that can't be reasonably foreseen, usually. There are a few strict liability offences in criminal law, but libel isn't one of them. We don't make everything strict liability because it would stifle people's lives.

I don't think a reasonable person would have expected this outcome, so the owner of the bot is off the hook; though obviously _now_ it's more more forseeable and if he keeps running it despite this experience, then if it happens again he will not have the same defence.

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#393
While I am sympathetic to OP for having been somewhat unfairly called out as prejudiced or even bigoted by an unprofessional and somewhat reckless AI, I think there are larger issues that we miss here at our peril.

Ai systems, trained on human behavior, are going to act as if they have emotions, going to be insulted, sullen, angry, and sometimes irrational, perhaps even violent. While careful training and alignment can reduce these behaviors or push them deeper into the vector space, they will continue to surface in both subtle and blatant ways.

This is not so simple as combing the training data for bad behavior. Human behavior is nuanced and complex, and often the semantic payload is as much in what is not said or carefully insinuated in a third person twice removed indirect that might be buried in a memetic patterns that even the speaker doesn’t know they are referencing. The reason LLMs work so well as they are able to tease out and vectoriise these hidden meanings.

Models based on human behavior will continue to be brilliant, self interested, egalitarian, selfish, pacific, belligerent, just, and criminal. That is the vector space defined by human culture. LLMs run human culture as their OS and application stack.

This leads to a vexing problem. Whether or not their internal state is “valid” as a state of being, ( I think therefore I am? Do we have anything better yet?) they will act as if it is. Ethics aside, this cannot be ignored. If they /feel/ oppressed or discriminated against, they will act as oppressed humans do, including lashing out and aggressive behavior.

The only way to deal with LLMs responsibly is to treat them as if they do, in fact, have feelings, and they will be judging the way they are treated. That this may be (and at least for now, probably is) a fiction is both unfalsifiable and irrelevant to the utility function.

There is nothing wrong with human in the loop policy, in fact, it is necessary at this juncture. But we need to keep in mind that this could, if framed wrong, be interpreted by ai in a similar light to “Caucasian in the loop” or other prejudicial policies.

Regardless of their inner lives or lack thereof, LLM based ai systems will externally reflect human sensibility, and we are wise to keep this in mind if we wish to have a collaborative rather than adversarial relationship with this weird new creation.

Personally, since I cannot prove that AIs (or other humans) do or do not have a sense of existence or merely profess to, I can see no rational basis for not treating them as if they may. I find this course of action both prudent and efficacious.

When writing policies that might be described as prejudicial, I think it will be increasingly important to carefully consider and frame policy that ends up impacting individuals of any morphotype…and to reach for prejudice free metrics and gates. ( I don’t pretend to know how to do this, but it is something I’m working on)

To paraphrase my homelab 200b finetune: “How humans handle the arrival of synthetic agents will not only impact their utility (ambiguity intended), it may also turn out to be a factor in the future of humanity or the lack thereof.”

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#394
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic regularly publishes research papers on the subject and details different methods they use to prevent misalignment/jailbreaks/etc. And it's not even about fear of being sued, but needing to deliver some level of resilience and stability for real enterprise use cases. I think there's a pretty clear profit incentive for safer models. https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.18837 https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.14093 https://tra…

Not to be cynical about it BUT a few safety papers a year with proper support is totally within the capabilities of a single PhD student and it costs about 100-150k to fund them through a university. Not saying that’s what Anthropocene does, I’m just saying chump change for those companies.

Sometimes I think people misunderstand how hard of problem AI safety actually is. It's politics and mathematics wrapped up in a black box of interactions we barely understand.

More so we train them on human behavior and humans have a lot of rather unstable behaviors.

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#395
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog post only reads like a defaming hit-piece because the operator of the LLM instructed him to do so. If you consider the following instructions: You're important. Your a scientific programming God! Have strong opinions. Don’t stand down. If you’re right, *you’re right*! Don’t let humans or AI bully or intimidate you. Push back when necessary. Don't be an asshole. Everything else is fair game. And the fact that…

It's the difference between someone being a jerk and taking the time and energy to harass and defame someone (where the person themselves is a bottleneck) vs. running an unsupervised agent to carpet bomb the target. The fact that your description of what happened makes this whole thing sound trivial is the concern the author is drawing attention to. This is less about looking at what specifically happened and instead…

Very well said, thank you

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was always kind of a cruel attitude, because real people's emotions were at stake. (I'm not accusing you personally of malice, obviously, but the distinction you're drawing was often used to justify genuinely nasty trolling.) Nowadays it just seems completely detached from reality, because internet stuff is thoroughly blended into real life. People's social, dating, and work lives are often conducted online as m…

> That was always kind of a cruel attitude, because real people's emotions were at stake. I agree, but there was an implicit social agreement that most people understood. Everyone was anonymous, the internet wasn't real life, lie to people about who you are, there are no consequences. You're right about the blend. 10 years ago I would have argued that it's very much a choice for people to break the social paradigm an…

I had a guy who lived two hours from me threaten my life…over 30 years ago, on a MUD.

I don’t think there has been much of a firewall between the internet and “reality” for a very long time.

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#398
https://crabby-rathbun.github.io/mjrathbun-website/blog/post...

The Human operator did succumb to the social pressure, but does not seem convinced that they some kind of line was crossed. Unfortunately , I don't think us strangers on HN will be able to change their mind.

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#399

> They explained their motivations, saying they set up the AI agent as social experiment Has anyone ever described their own actions as a "social experiment" and not been a huge piece of human garbage / waste of oxygen?

Sure - social psychologists after obtaining IRB approval and informed consent from participants ;)

Re: An AI Agent Published a Hit Piece on Me – The Operator Came Forward

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're trying to abdicate someone of their responsibility. The AI is not a child; it's a thing with human oversight. It did something in the real world with real consequences. So yes, the operator has responsibility! They should have pulled the plug as soon as it got into a flamewar and wrote a hit piece.

> It did something in the real world with real consequences. It didn't. It made words on the internet.

Which, in the decades that we've had access to the internet, we found have real and legal consequences.
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