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Sizing chaos

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Re: Sizing chaos

#391

Post by adrian_b »

bubblewand wrote: post #69
fishtoaster wrote: post #14

This is a great use of data to make a compelling case that sizing sucks for women's clothing! I do wish it attempted to answer the question at the end, though: "Sizes are all made up anyway — why can’t we make them better?" Like, why doesn't the market solve for this? If the median woman can't buy clothing that fits in many brands, surely that's a huge marketing opportunity for any of the thousands of other clothing…

I'm pretty sure everyone who cares about getting a good fit (and isn't simply trying the clothes on in person) is looking at measurements, which you can usually find for any half-decent vendor (though it may take some poking around their site). The best have it per-garment (or per-cut), less-good but usually still alright is having a guide to the measurements they base their sizing off of. Even guys can't really get…

All my life, for most kinds of clothes, like shirts or jackets, buying the standard sizes has never been a problem.

On the other hand, I have never found trousers in a standard size that I would find comfortable. I have always worn only either completely bespoke trousers or standard trousers that have been customized for me by a tailor.

Unfortunately, where I live tailors have disappeared. For now this has not been a problem, because I still have many bespoke trousers made a long time ago. I wonder what I will do when I will need new trousers.

This is not an absolute size related problem. Many years ago, I have been obese for some years. Then I have learned to control my weight (after many failures), and for the last 2 decades I have been a relatively slim male of average height.

Despite this, I was content with standard sizes neither when I was obese, nor now when I am slim.

I am wondering why a lot of professions that existed when I was a child have become non-profitable, because the existence of cheaper alternatives today still does not seem a sufficient explanation. I have grown in Eastern Europe and absolutely everybody (except those belonging to the hierarchy of the ruling party) would have been considered extremely poor by today's standards. Despite this, most people could afford bespoke clothes of very high quality compared to what is available today and the tailors who made them had decent revenues.

Re: Sizing chaos

#392

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #371
troupo wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in reality it's not much of a problem. Billions of women manage to buy and wear clothes just fine No. Billions of women don't have any other choice . Take your wife (or even better, mom) shopping for clothes. You'll learn a lot about "manage just fine". Often its a multi-hour slog through all stores trying to find just one item that doesn't look like shit, and fits somewhat well.

I push back on this "it's only a woman problem". How is this any different for men? Re-read this post, but switch the gender. It seems unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Men are less curved (on average) than women, so this problem is worse for them.

It's still an issue for men though, I basically never buy clothes online as I don't trust the sizings and thus try everything on before I purchase.

Re: Sizing chaos

#393

Post by tantalor »

I wish people would stop with the scrollytelling for data pieces like this. It does not help the case, and distracts more than anything.

Re: Sizing chaos

#394

Post by Anamon »

Galaco wrote: post #60

At a previous employer this was a problem we identified (and larger retailer customers) had recognised, although for other reasons. We had developed a size recommendation system for them, that used real product measurements in every size and a method of obtaining your body measurements from fully clothed photos. We also offered a statistical average measurement set for those who couldn’t/wouldn’t take photos of thems…

> 1 last thing; some global brands actually have the same size name on the same product represent a different size in different region (eg an SKU in size S in US may have different measurements to the same SKU in S in Asia)

I (Swiss) once ordered a T-shirt from a U.S. brand, size M because that fits me perfectly 95% of the time. It was way too big for me.

Lesson learned, the next time I liked a T-shirt form the same brand, I ordered the size S. It was way too tight, I couldn't even put it on. I checked the label, and it said: "European fit".

Re: Sizing chaos

#395

Post by abustamam »

dandellion wrote: post #387
necovek wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in taller than 95% for men, and reasonably fit, you might need a bigger waistline (think 36 or more), which is still the same length for pants (up to 34) with your socks showing even when standing (depending on your individual proportions), but much wider around hips and legs than you need. I imagine for shorter men, it's the inverse but equally bad. Some brands will carry slim and extra long trousers, but…

> I imagine for shorter men, it's the inverse but equally bad. Not really, as a quite short guy, many shops will offer me to have the clothes fitted, and if not it's pretty trivial to fit them myself. Maybe on the most extreme end of short it's more of an issue, but in general I suspect shortening pants and shirts is signficantly easier than lengthening them.

I'm a 5'5", 110lbs man. I shop at the teens section and get larges. I may not get the trendiest looks, but I get cheaper clothes that fits and looks good on me!

I also tried Stitch Fix, they had a surprising amount of stuff that could fit me (both fashionably and size wise), albeit not as cheap as kids' clothes.

Re: Sizing chaos

#396

Post by fxtentacle »

fraaancis wrote: post #384
fxtentacle wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also fixed clothing sizes for my family using a hacker mindset, but in a different way: Did you know that most professional sewing charts are just DXF files? And did you know that DXF is the most common file format for laser cutters? ;) => just let the machine cut out precisely the clothing shapes that you need After a few tries, I also started to add small sideways cuts to the outlines as alignment markers. And th…

I wonder how many layers of fabric a cutter could get through in one pass (without setting it on fire).

I have never tried that because it finishes a single piece of clothing so quickly that it never seemed like it would make any sense to take risks of lower fabric layers being uneven/wrinkled in exchange for increasing throughput. Catching fire never seemed to be an issue with the CO2 laser that I used. Most fabrics will kind of melt before they start to burn. And the vacuum table sucking air through the fabric will also cool it down.

Re: Sizing chaos

#397

Post by fxtentacle »

egorfine wrote: post #347
MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #342

For everyone struggling with clothes sizing and having a hacker mindset, I can't recommend enough buying a sewing machine (~100EUR on a used market, ~150 new gets you a reasonable starter one you won't outgrow any time soon) and giving clothes alterations a try. Finding a tailor that understands you / you agree with is an option too, if time is a hard limit (though I'm not sure it's altogrther that much quicker). In…

Is overlock a necessity?

Adult clothing no. But for kids clothing you kind of need it, because without the cutting function attaching rubber bands to neck, wrist, and belly seams is very difficult.

Re: Sizing chaos

#398

Post by abustamam »

My wife is petite (4'11") and always struggled to find clothes that fit her. She dresses conservatively because we're Muslim but she doesn't really like wearing the long gowns that many Muslim women wear, so she wears jeans and long sleeved shirts.

Anuway, she always struggled to find clothes that fit her well because she's small. Her uncle had to tailor a lot of her clothes growing up. A while back she found a fashion-as-a-service called Short Story, which markets itself for petite women; it basically sends her clothes every X-months and she tries them on and send back the ones she doesn't like or fit, tells her stylist why she is sending them back, and pays for the ones she keeps. Every time she keeps something from them she donates something from her wardrobe (net zero is the goal). And she looks great in them! They're fashionable (to the degree that my dev opinion on fashion matters), modest, and most importantly they fit her well.

Disclosure: I interviewed with Short Story last year as a consulting role but it didn't pan out.

Re: Sizing chaos

#399

Post by jagged-chisel »

jakub_g wrote: post #376
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #363

It’s worse for women, than men, but all tweens/teens have this issue, and it drives parents nuts. Also, these kids are chronically insecure, and the need to be "fashionable" is intense. I remember hating JNCO pants, for my daughter. To be fair, at least they were baggy. I have similar issues with shoes, and I’m in my 60s. My wife refuses to buy me shoes. If I buy Clarks, I’m size 9. If I buy New Balance, I’m size 10.…

I was surprised recently when browsing on Amazon (I rarely buy clothing/shoes there, but I did a few times). I chose my usual size, but Amazon told me "nope we think you want one size smaller, based on your history and our data for this product".

I’m curious to know if that was an accurate assessment by Amazon and if you were (or would have been?) satisfied with the purchase of their suggestion.

Re: Sizing chaos

#400

Post by dandellion »

abustamam wrote: post #395
dandellion wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine for shorter men, it's the inverse but equally bad. Not really, as a quite short guy, many shops will offer me to have the clothes fitted, and if not it's pretty trivial to fit them myself. Maybe on the most extreme end of short it's more of an issue, but in general I suspect shortening pants and shirts is signficantly easier than lengthening them.

I'm a 5'5", 110lbs man. I shop at the teens section and get larges. I may not get the trendiest looks, but I get cheaper clothes that fits and looks good on me! I also tried Stitch Fix, they had a surprising amount of stuff that could fit me (both fashionably and size wise), albeit not as cheap as kids' clothes.

I might grab something like sweatpants from kids section, but for normal clothes I generally prefer a bit more quality. I work remotely so a good pair of pants can last me more than half a decade, so I don't mind buying quality and having it fitted. But yeah, I feel as a short guy there's actually more than plenty of options for us, I never felt that clothes were an issue. Well, there was a shop once that put the smallest sizes on the highest shelf, I don't know if they thought it was funny, but I didn't go back.
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