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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#391

Post by ibejoeb »

mmooss wrote: post #293
ibejoeb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author has been qualified as an expert witness in several venues.

Expert witnesses are not reliably credible authorities. They are people with credentials hired to help win lawsuits. I'm sure the author knows more than I do, but that doesn't say much.

It's not about his testimony on this particular issue. In fact, it does not appear that he has given any. It's about his qualifications to potentially testify. Even so, in American courts (in which he has previously qualified,) the qualification process is adversarial and involves both direct and cross-examination, so if he wasn't actually qualified, the opposing party would certainly argue as much.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#392

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

rayiner wrote: post #125

Saying that there is “no legal requirement to show an ID” is truthy but misleading. Federal law gives the TSA authority over “screening” passengers: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/44901 (“The Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration shall provide for the screening of all passengers and property, including United States mail, cargo, carry-on and checked baggage, and other articles, that…

You have the right to travel without ID in the U.S. The TSA may demand it, and may tell you it's legally required, but that doesn't make that true.

"In fact, the TSA does not require, and the law does not authorize the TSA to require, that would-be travelers show any identity documents. According to longstanding practice, people who do not show any identity documents travel by air every day – typically after being required to complete and sign the current version of TSA Form 415 and answer questions about what information is contained in the file about them obtained by the TSA from data broker Accurint…."

https://papersplease.org/wp/2020/05/19/tsa-tries-again-to-im...

https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/03/18/buses-trains-and-us-d...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_Unit...

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#393

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

This is a really stupid situation. We shouldn't be obstructed from flying without ID as long as we pass the regular security checks, and those security checks shouldn't be unreasonable.

What can we do to get there? Is anybody organizing?

I want to open my wallet. Where can I donate?

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#394

Post by ZeWaka »

wildzzz wrote: post #383
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I am a white male and have TSA pre-check and after walking through the metal detector, maybe one out of several times I get randomly selected for the body scanner. I've never gotten the dreaded SSSS though. I've very rarely traveled alone not on a work trip and never alone on a one way ticket so maybe that helps.

White male who always flies alone and on one-ways here, never gotten SSSS.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#395

Post by parineum »

happymellon wrote: post #356
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I used to work with a Kevin and a Mohammed. Whenever we travelled to offsite offices Mohammed 100% of the time was picked for bag check, while Kevin was not picked once. Mohammed was white, and Kevin was black. It was completely racist, and never random.

Not defending the practice but the Mohammed thing has a possible origin that isn't directly racist. The common names among Muslims and their propensity to appear on various watch lists lead to a lot of false alarms on those with those names.

It may be a racist result but there is a pretty reasonable and understandable reason it happens, ignoring the legality and morality of that kind of tracking as well.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#396

Post by almosthere »

duskdozer wrote: post #304
ibejoeb wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be sensible if the traffic signs were in English.

Can you read Chinese? Can you identify what this traffic sign means? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/CN...

What does a sign that says private road, residents and guests only.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#397

Post by jazzyjackson »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #364
otterley wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney, I can tell you that a naive reading of words in the Constitution is not how law is decided.

Believe it or not, I don't care what authoritarians feel about the 4th amendment that was designed to be read and interpreted free of the courts.

I suppose you tell cops at a traffic stop that you don't need a license plate because you're an individual not engaging in commerce.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#398

Post by colecut »

paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

would love to know the revenue generated by bottled water pre and post 9/11

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#399

Post by monksy »

wildzzz wrote: post #383
sargun wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ethnicity are you? I went through an airport -- and nobody else got screened except me. What was special about me? I was the only non-white person in the airport. Upon complaining, this was the response: > Random selection by our screening technology prevents terrorists from attempting to defeat the security system by learning how it operates. Leaving out any one group, such as senior citizens, persons with disa…

I am a white male and have TSA pre-check and after walking through the metal detector, maybe one out of several times I get randomly selected for the body scanner. I've never gotten the dreaded SSSS though. I've very rarely traveled alone not on a work trip and never alone on a one way ticket so maybe that helps.

I get it not infrequently when travelling from europe. It's annoying that they pretend that "oh this is random" .. I'm even going up to the airport employees at hte gate and telling them "I'm told I'm here to make new friends today"

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#400

Post by pigggg »

seg_lol wrote: post #389
smelendez wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be normal in the U.S. to walk people to the gate until 9/11. Now you can escort someone to the check-in counter and up to the security checkpoint, and meet people at the luggage area to help with bags. But in practice it seems rare to do so if there isn’t a particular reason, probably because you’d have to pay to park or ride transit and it’s usually a trek beyond that. Honestly if they allowed you to go t…

You can walk someone to the gate, you just have to have a ticket.

Post 9/11 you could get a waiver from the ticket counter to escort someone thru security all the way to the gate. Dunno if that's a thing anymore, but I had them print out a paper and showed it at security several times in the mid 2000s.
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