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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#391

Post by ekr »

joe_mamba wrote: post #324
CalRobert wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people in the future will visit the US for the dieselpunk nostalgia, the same way people like seeing classic cars in Cuba.

Feels bad faith to shit on people from your ivory tower, just because they can't afford to ditch their reliable beaters and buy a new car. Have you seen wage growth vs car price increases lately? Not everyone is on a remote six figure US tech job. Try to view and judge things from outside your bubble as well. I'd also dump my ol reliable ICE car that's now probably worth less than a fancy electric bicycle, if someone…

Same here. Living in the Netherlands, I drive a 2008 Daihatsu Cuore, bought for 850E over a year ago, I pay 17E /month in mrb (road tax) and 38E/month insurance. It's basically close to the costs of a scooter. And I average under 4L/100km fuel usage, for my 200km/week commute. I did some calculation and no car comes close to these running costs. Definitely no electric cars, even if I were to get them for free, because road tax here is mainly a factor of weight.

Even a Dacia Spring with its 900kg is slightly more expensive overall to run (in my circumstances. I could charge at home, but don't have solar panels atm), and a lot more expensive up front to buy (used).

It has over 304k km already, and it runs perfectly well with some occasional maintenance and some mechanical sympathy, but I was considering alternatives in case something were to happen. Conclusion? Just buy another one. Suzuki Celerio is the only one in the same ballpark, but it's about 2k EUR more expensive. And I love my Daihatsu.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#392

Post by fennecfoxy »

chakintosh wrote: post #389
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It's done. They're already the premier automotive superpower now. It might not seem like it in Europe and USA, but anywhere else in the world they are dominating. I live in Morocco and I am not exaggerating when I say that every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road. Not just cars of the same brand, completely new brands. Dacia an…

>every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road

And I think the difference is going to be apparent 15-20 years from now when new parts are needed for these models.

With the big boys like Ford, Toyota etc I can trust that they manufactured (and still manufacture) parts with warehouses full of them and I can always find the part I need to repair a vehicle.

I very much doubt that we will see the same thing with Chinese auto companies, even premier ones like BYD.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#393

Post by embedding-shape »

qiqitori wrote: post #18
sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

> What kind of stuff is missing?

I'm in the market for buying a new car, either EV or hybrid. Currently have a Audi, been looking at various BYD models, particularly the new Touring one.

One important feature, that I didn't know I needed before I tried it, was in-seat AC, where the air from the AC hits the back and bottom, instead of just your arms and face. Living in a warm country, and spending most of the time in the car during the summer, this feature is something I really want now.

Heading to Audi and asking what the cheapest model available with that feature? Around 70K EUR. Doing the same but going to BYD: 35K EUR. And that's just considering that single feature, the same happens for almost everything. Want a HUD in the windshield? Audi adds 5K to the price, with BYD it's in the middle variants and up.

Basically, you get the same amount of "features" for half the price, and it's hard to just say "Well, I'm a fan of Audi so that's worth the markup". Still, there are many decisions that go into purchasing a car, not just the features, but I think that explains why you see that argument come up, because they do offer more features for cheaper than at least what the European car makers do.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#394

Post by skylurk »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #325
skylurk wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. EVs are a once in a lifetime chance for EU and Chinese manufacturers to catch up again or even leapfrog Toyota. Until recently Toyota was 20 years ahead wrt reliability and upkeep. Soon, battery weight and performance will be the main differentiator of vehicles.

Not sure they care all that much about reliability. Just being cheap enough is enough > Soon, battery weight and performance will be the main differentiator of vehicles. People don't buy Corolla for performance. And even low-end EVs are "enough" thanks to the power coming on from the very lowest RPM. Aside from range all the characteristics are not performance based. It must be big enough, have expected comforts and…

Sorry, I should clarify, I mean battery weight and battery performance. The other components won't be a major differentiator. They can be cheap and still be reliable enough.

The specs that we compare when EV shopping are mostly just how well the battery works (range, charge time, peak output, lifespan, power to weight, cold weather performance).

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#395

Post by embedding-shape »

prmoustache wrote: post #307
randerson wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one. As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake e…

The thing is, driving on the road is not supposed to be fun. One should go to a racetrack (or simulator) to have fun. Unless you live in a really remote and desertic place, there are just too much people on the road nowadays.

> driving on the road is not supposed to be fun.

Who says it's supposed to boring? It's supposed to be safe and you're supposed to drive with the consideration of others, but I don't think it's supposed to be either fun or boring, that's up to you.

I'm having a blast rolling down the highway in the middle of the night blasting music and singing, am I not allowed to do this because driving is supposed to not be fun?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#396

Post by lan321 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #359
muvlon wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car enthusiasts caring about the driving experience doesn't just mean drivability. Engine sound is a huge part of it. All the classic Porsche 911 have flat-6 engines which make a distinctive sound that is totally part of the brand. FTR I don't care about this myself, I'm happy with my EV. But the importance of this aspect is easily missed by people not part of the target demographic.

It feels like engine sound has become more important to these people since EV's entered the market. I'm sure it was there before but not to the same extent.

It became more of a selling point as regulation came for it. OPF, stricter modification control, etc. Prior it didn't matter as much since it was always decent and you could do whatever you want to it. Now, a pops and bangs tune with a straight pipe will get your car impounded in most countries the first time a cop sees/hears you.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#397

Post by fifticon »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Well, currently US _are_ ICE enthusiasts, lamentable as that may be.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#398

Post by pjc50 »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #392
chakintosh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It's done. They're already the premier automotive superpower now. It might not seem like it in Europe and USA, but anywhere else in the world they are dominating. I live in Morocco and I am not exaggerating when I say that every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road. Not just cars of the same brand, completely new brands. Dacia an…

>every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road And I think the difference is going to be apparent 15-20 years from now when new parts are needed for these models. With the big boys like Ford, Toyota etc I can trust that they manufactured (and still manufacture) parts with warehouses full of them and I can always find the part I need to repair a vehicle. I very much doubt that we will see the same thing with Chines…

> And I think the difference is going to be apparent 15-20 years from now when new parts are needed for these models.

Perhaps unstated, but this is going to be like trying to find parts for my Nokia 3210 (current age: 27). EVs are still in the "rapid improvement" phase, and by the time the battery warranty expires (5-7 years) the cars available on the current market will be significantly better in all respects.

On the other hand, they just have far fewer "parts" in the first place. Early indication is very good for lifetimes of the non-battery parts.

I expect the median EV of today to have a shorter life than a corresponding ICE, but the EV of 10 years time to have a much longer one. Which is going to make all the stupid issues around infotainment and subscription issues more acute.

The average age of all cars on UK roads has just hit 10 years: https://www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/average-car-in-th... ; EVs skew young because they're new.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#399

Post by cpursley »

david-gpu wrote: post #384
cpursley wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you are familiar with the built-environment in America, but there’s effectively no biking infrastructure and people are openly hostile towards cyclists who try.

Barely any bike infrastructure where I live, either. You can make it work. Give it a try someday.

I'd love to but would rather not be road splatter, which is a frequent outcome:

https://news.google.com/search?q=cyclist+run+over&hl=en-US&g...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#400

Post by thomas_witt »

thinkingemote wrote: post #368

Electric cars are required by law to emit sound via a speaker for safety. Usually the sound is unique and somewhat electronic in nature. Some electric sports cars, and I'm not sure but Porsche may be one of them, have a loud deep bassy faux-sports engine sound emitting from the speaker. "VROOOOM VROOOOOM VROOOM!" - on an electric car. Does anyone else find this *extremely* weird? It's like a petrol car having a speak…

Totally agreed. It is beyond understanding why you would even pay extra to get these sounds. The heavenly silence is one of the great advantages of an EV in my opinion.
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