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What an unprocessed photo looks like

maurycyz.com

391–400 of 418 posts

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#391
post #340

The site explicitly states that : "This website is not licensed for ML/LLM training or content creation. " Yet I asked chatgpt to summarize it , and it did. And it says that: Why summarization is allowed In most jurisdictions and policies: Summarization is a transformative use It does not substitute for the original work It does not expose proprietary structure, wording, or data It does not enable reconstruction of t…

The bot is correct.

IMHO it is not, summarization is a valuable content.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably do know what they're asking for, they're just using an ambiguous word.

I don't really think so! I think they imagine that if there were no processing applied to the image it would look pretty much like what they see IRL but that's not true.

Some of them might literally want no color correction and still expect it to look like real life, and that expectation is wrong. Some of them might want the most accurate generic mapping, accepting the consequences, and that's reasonable enough. And I bet a lot of them mean they want no retouching, and that's a very valid demand.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#393
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A DSLR and mobile phone camera optimize for different things and can't really be compared. Mobile phone camera's are severely handicapped by the optics & sensor size. Therefore to create a acceptable picture (to share on social media) they need to do a lot of processing. DSLR and professional camera's feature much greater hardware. Here the optics and sensor size/type are important it optimize the actual light being…

> A DSLR and mobile phone camera optimize for different things and can't really be compared. You sound exactly like the sales guy trying to explain why that Indigo workstation is “different” even though it was performing the exact same vector and matrix algebra as my gaming GPU. The. Exact. Same. Thing. Everything else you’ve said is irrelevant to computational photography. If anything, it helps matters because there…

There are many things wrong with this. I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max and use it to capture HEIF 48 and ProRAW images for Lightroom. There’s no doubt of the extraordinary capabilities of modern phone cameras. And there are camera applications that give you a sense of the sensor data captured, which only further illustrates the dazzling wizardly between sensor capture vs the image seen by laypeople.

That said, there is literally no comparison between the iPhone camera and the RAW photos captured on a modern full-frame mirrorless camera like my Nikon Z6III or Z9. I can’t mount a 180-600mm telephoto lens to an iPhone, or a 24-120mm, or use a teleconverter. Nor can I instantly swing an iPhone and capture a bird or aircraft flying by at high speed and instantly lock and track focus in 3D, capture 30 RAW images per second at 45MP (or 120 JPEGs per second), all while controlling aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

Physics is a thing. The large sensor size and lenses (that can make a Mac Studio seem cheap by comparison) serve a purpose. Try capturing even a remotely similar image on an iPhone in low light, and especially RAW, and you’ll be sitting there waiting seconds or more for a single image. Professional lenses can easily contain 25 individual lens elements that move in conjunction as groups for autofocus, zoom, motion stabilization, etc. They’re state-of-the-art modern marvels that make an iPhone’s subject detection pale by compare. Examples: I can lock on immediately to a small bird’s eye 300 feet away with a square tracking the tiny eye precisely, and continue tracking. The same applies to pets, people, vehicles, and more with AI detection.

You can handhold a low-light shot at 1/15s to capture a waterfall with motion blur and continue shooting, with the camera optimizing the stabilization around the focus point—that’s the sensor and lens working in conjunction for real-time stabilization for standard shots, or “sports mode” for rapidly panning horizontally or vertically.

There’s a reason pro-grade cameras exist and people use them. See Simon D’entrement, Steve Perry, and many others on YouTube for examples.

For most people, it doesn’t matter. They can happily shoot still images and even amazingly high-quality video these days. But dismissing the differences is wildly misleading. These cameras require memory cards that cost half as much or more than the latest iPhone, and for good reason [1].

With everything, there are trade offs. An iPhone fits in my pocket. A Nikon Z8 and 800mm lens and associated gear is a beast. Different tools, different job.

A modern lens, for comparison: https://www.nikonusa.com/p/nikkor-z-600mm-f63-vr-s/20122/ove...

[0] https://youtu.be/2yZEeYVouXs

[1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1887815-REG/delkin_de...

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of an ad-free original kindle experience was $409. The $10 is on top of the price the user paid for the device.

Lets not distort the past. The ads were introduced a few years later with the Kindle Keyboard, which launched with an MSRP of $140 for the base model, or $115 with ads. That was a substantial discount on a product which was already cheap when it released. All for ads which are only visible when you aren't using the device anyway. Don't like them? Then buy other devices, pay to have them removed, get a cover to hide t…

Yes and here in Europe they were introduced even later, with kindle 4 IIRC.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#395
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS added a camera mode for medical photos that extra doesn't do that. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2024/10162/

Thank you for sharing. Seems to validate my suspicions!

It's not really something to be suspicious of. Cameras just don't know what colors things "actually" are, mostly because they don't know what color the lighting is. Auto exposure/auto white balance erases color casts or unusual skin colors.

You can put a color calibration card in the picture to achieve a similar effect, but it's not as predictable.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#396
post #110

> As a result of this, if the linear data is displayed directly, it will appear much darker then it should be. Then -> than? (In case the author is reading comments here.)

The author makes this error every single time, in both articles by him I've read today. For some reason, as a person whose native language is not English, this particular error pisses me off so much.

We should blame English's crazy spelling system, not the author.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#397
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A fun tangent on the "green cast" mentioned in the post: the reason the Bayer pattern is RGGB (50% green) isn't just about color balance, but spatial resolution. The human eye is most sensitive to green light, so that channel effectively carries the majority of the luminance (brightness/detail) data. From the classic file format "ppm" (portable pixel map) the ppm to pgm (portable grayscale map) man page: https://li…

> The quantization formula ppmtopgm uses is g = .299 r + .587 g + .114 b. Seriously. We can trust linux man pages to use the same 1-letter variable name for 2 different things in a tiny formula, can't we?

In my copy the exact line is as follows:

    The quantization formula ppmtopgm uses is y = .299 r + .587 g + .114 b.
so, it's either fixed, or it's a typo to begin with.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think so! I think they imagine that if there were no processing applied to the image it would look pretty much like what they see IRL but that's not true.

Some of them might literally want no color correction and still expect it to look like real life, and that expectation is wrong. Some of them might want the most accurate generic mapping, accepting the consequences, and that's reasonable enough. And I bet a lot of them mean they want no retouching, and that's a very valid demand.

Even if we reinterpret it into the more "reasonable" categories I'm not convinced they'd be happy with what they're asking for. I think users are generally very poor judges of what they actually want in cases like this.

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A DSLR and mobile phone camera optimize for different things and can't really be compared. You sound exactly like the sales guy trying to explain why that Indigo workstation is “different” even though it was performing the exact same vector and matrix algebra as my gaming GPU. The. Exact. Same. Thing. Everything else you’ve said is irrelevant to computational photography. If anything, it helps matters because there…

There are many things wrong with this. I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max and use it to capture HEIF 48 and ProRAW images for Lightroom. There’s no doubt of the extraordinary capabilities of modern phone cameras. And there are camera applications that give you a sense of the sensor data captured, which only further illustrates the dazzling wizardly between sensor capture vs the image seen by laypeople. That said, there is l…

You are totally missing my point and talking past me. I have a Nikon Z8! I know what it is capable of!

The point I'm trying to make is that the RAW images coming out of a modern full-frame camera get very "light" processing in a typical workflow (i.e.: Adobe Lightroom), little more than debayering before all further treatment is in ordinary RGB space.

Modern mobile phones have sensors with just as many megapixels, capturing a volume of raw data (measured in 'bits') that is essentially identical to a high-end full-frame sensor!

The difference is that mobile phones capture and digitally merge multiple frames captured in a sequence to widen the HDR dynamic range and reduce noise. They can even merge images taken from slightly different perspectives or with moving objects. They also apply tricks like debayering that is aware of pixel-level sensor characteristics and is tuned to the specific make and model instead of shared across all cameras ever made, which is typical of something like Lightroom, Darktable, or whatever.

If I capture a 20 fps burst with a Nikon Z series camera... I can pick one. That's about the only operation I can do with those images! Why can't I merge multiple exposures with motion compensation to get an effective 10 ISO instead of 64, but without the blur from camera motion?

None of this has anything to do with lenses, auto-focus, etc...

I'm talking about applying "modern GPU" levels of computer power to the raw bits coming off a bayer sensor, whether that's in a phone or a camera. The phone can do it! Why can't Lightroom!?

Re: What an unprocessed photo looks like

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things wrong with this. I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max and use it to capture HEIF 48 and ProRAW images for Lightroom. There’s no doubt of the extraordinary capabilities of modern phone cameras. And there are camera applications that give you a sense of the sensor data captured, which only further illustrates the dazzling wizardly between sensor capture vs the image seen by laypeople. That said, there is l…

You are totally missing my point and talking past me. I have a Nikon Z8! I know what it is capable of! The point I'm trying to make is that the RAW images coming out of a modern full-frame camera get very "light" processing in a typical workflow (i.e.: Adobe Lightroom), little more than debayering before all further treatment is in ordinary RGB space. Modern mobile phones have sensors with just as many megapixels, ca…

> I have a Nikon Z8! I know what it is capable of!

It seems to me you underestimate the amount of work your camera is already doing. I feel like you overestimate the raw quality of a mobile camera as well.

> Modern mobile phones have sensors with just as many megapixels, capturing a volume of raw data (measured in 'bits') that is essentially identical to a high-end full-frame sensor!

There may be the same amount of bits but that doesn't mean that it captures the same quality of signal. It's like saying that a higher amount of bits on a ADC correspond to a better quality signal on the line, it just isn't true. Megapixels are overhyped, resolution isn't everything for picture quality.

> The phone can do it! Why can't Lightroom!?

Be the change you want to see, if the features that you want are not in Lightroom write a tool to implement it (or add the features to a tool like ffmpeg). The features you are talking about are in just software after capture so it should be possible from the camera's raw.

Perhaps you would be better of buying a high quality point and shoot camera or just using your phone instead of a semi professional full-frame camera for your purpose. With a DSLR you have options how to process, if that means in your "typical workflow" light processing then that's up to you. perhaps If you want to point shoot, instagram you indeed don't want to spend time processing in Lightroom and that's fine.

It feels like you are complaining about how your expensive pickup can't fit your family and suitcases when going on holiday like the neighbors SUV even though they have the same amount of horsepower and are build on the same chassis. They are obviously build for different purposes.

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