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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#391

Post by FridayoLeary »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #294
jmyeet wrote: post #195

There are a few different angles to this. 1. If any other state had done this, we'd be correctly calling this a terrorist attack and there wouldn't be any question about it; and 2. Palantir was a partner in developing several AI systems used for targeting missile strikes in Gaza. Collectively these tend to be called Lavender [1][2]. Another of these systems is called "Where's Daddy". What does it do? It targets alleg…

We have the ICC. It was set up by lawyers with subject matter expertise. The liberal democratic nations of the world could decide to start using and empowering that.

What for? To issue arrest warrants against dead terrorists and prime ministers who kill terrorists?

They should stick to african warlords, maybe they can make a difference there.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#392

Post by ignoramous »

kyboren wrote: post #287
ignoramous wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perfectly lawful Are you a lawyer / expert in conflicts? If not, curious how you arrived at this conclusion.

No, I am not a lawyer. Does that preclude my having an opinion on the value and legality of a military strike? Anyway it seems to me that it was: - highly discriminatory - only Hezbollah commanders received these devices - it's an essential piece of military C2 gear so you'd expect they would keep possession of them at all times - the explosive was small enough to mitigate any risk to bystanders - targeted at combata…

> Passes the smell test to me

Gotcha. Thanks.

> Does that preclude my having an opinion on the value and legality of a military strike?

Words mean things. "Perfectly lawful" means just that? And so, I was curious.

> Would you still have a bone to pick with my credentials if I said that I thought the Dresden firebombings

Felt the need to know whether I was mistaking an arm-chair opinion for an expert opinion, is all.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#393

Post by sporkxrocket »

underdeserver wrote: post #384

I am in awe of the opinions in this thread. Really. If Israel, unprovoked, randomly carried out this attack it would be one thing. But: 1. Hezbollah had been continuously, deliberately firing rockets at civilians since October 8th, 2023 displacing tens of thousands and killing multiple civilians including 12 children in a playground in Majdal Shams. 2. Hezbollah embeds itself and fires from within civilian population…

Hezbollah stated repeatedly that they would stop attacking Israel if Israel stopped committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. I know I certainly support them.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#394

Post by FridayoLeary »

andrewcamel wrote: post #111
UltraSane wrote: post #66

[flagged]

Yeah... requires serious mental gymnastics to argue otherwise. Military/terrorist group procures communication devices to coordinate military operations. Explosive is sized to injure the holder, not bystanders - per CCTV videos, eg: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/sep/18/cctv-cap... Hard to get more precise/targeted than that! In contrast to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEoK6oihqhs

[flagged]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#395

Post by tkel »

underdeserver wrote: post #384

I am in awe of the opinions in this thread. Really. If Israel, unprovoked, randomly carried out this attack it would be one thing. But: 1. Hezbollah had been continuously, deliberately firing rockets at civilians since October 8th, 2023 displacing tens of thousands and killing multiple civilians including 12 children in a playground in Majdal Shams. 2. Hezbollah embeds itself and fires from within civilian population…

If I were Israel, I would have not invaded Gaza, which would have resulted in far fewer civilian casualties, and also would have ended the strikes by Hezbollah.

Also, if you look at the data on attacks by Israel against Lebanon, they are disproportionate, Israel launching 10x more airstrikes, even going so far as to level entire city blocks of apartment buildings in Beirut. I remember just on the first day of attacks by Israel against Lebanon, over 1000 civilians were killed. Also Israel refuses to vacate southern Lebanon after a ceasefire agreement, and continues to violate the ceasefire. Just in the last 24h, Israel has bombarded 4 different locations in Central Lebanon with airstrikes. If I were Israel, I would simply stop acting as a fanatic aggressor with no regard for human life.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#396

Post by Qiu_Zhanxuan »

baskin31 wrote: post #349
wunderland wrote: post #328

The scale of these terrorist attacks seems to be lost by some in the comments here. Here’s a documentary showing the extent, including all of the undeniable civilians that were injured or killed: https://youtu.be/2mqqDTIs4vE

These pagers did not bring down buildings as shown in here. This 'documentary' is all over the place factually with sources from many of the most anti-Israel (not pro-Palestinian) organizations.

[flagged]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#397

Post by Seattle3503 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #391
Seattle3503 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the ICC. It was set up by lawyers with subject matter expertise. The liberal democratic nations of the world could decide to start using and empowering that.

What for? To issue arrest warrants against dead terrorists and prime ministers who kill terrorists? They should stick to african warlords, maybe they can make a difference there.

If fully realized it would mean we actually have international law, including fair trials.

Imagine slapping Putin in handcuffs when he touches down in any Western country, rather than the glad-handing and photo ops he gets now.

Dictators play democracies off each other. International law is in part about solving a coordination problem.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#398

Post by tptacek »

tkel wrote: post #395
underdeserver wrote: post #384

I am in awe of the opinions in this thread. Really. If Israel, unprovoked, randomly carried out this attack it would be one thing. But: 1. Hezbollah had been continuously, deliberately firing rockets at civilians since October 8th, 2023 displacing tens of thousands and killing multiple civilians including 12 children in a playground in Majdal Shams. 2. Hezbollah embeds itself and fires from within civilian population…

If I were Israel, I would have not invaded Gaza, which would have resulted in far fewer civilian casualties, and also would have ended the strikes by Hezbollah. Also, if you look at the data on attacks by Israel against Lebanon, they are disproportionate, Israel launching 10x more airstrikes, even going so far as to level entire city blocks of apartment buildings in Beirut. I remember just on the first day of attacks…

The military dynamics of the Israel and Hezbollah conflict are an indictment of Israeli's Gaza campaign. When Israel is clear-eyed, strategic, and effective at confronting a serious military adversary, it looks like the Hezbollah conflict: ultra-targeted rapidly disabling strikes. That Israel instead systematically leveled an entire civilian metropolitan area to combat Hamas makes the the claims about the Hezbollah strike more damning, not less.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#399

Post by FridayoLeary »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #397
FridayoLeary wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What for? To issue arrest warrants against dead terrorists and prime ministers who kill terrorists? They should stick to african warlords, maybe they can make a difference there.

If fully realized it would mean we actually have international law, including fair trials. Imagine slapping Putin in handcuffs when he touches down in any Western country, rather than the glad-handing and photo ops he gets now. Dictators play democracies off each other. International law is in part about solving a coordination problem.

That's just wishful thinking.

I would argue that by going after Israel in such a blatantly biased way the ICC and the UN have fallen to precisely the sort of groups you want to use them against.

Not saying the ICC can't be useful, you would just have to massively limit the scope of their "authority" to realistic targets. I.e. South American dictators and various warlords. And of course islamic terrorists.

Plenty of international law works because it actually serves a useful purpose for states like shipping. Countries don't like domestic terrorists and crime organisations. They would also prefer africa to be developed so they can trade.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#400

Post by viccis »

baskin31 wrote: post #365
viccis wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Afaik they intercepted a shipment for Hamas members only Ignoring that it was Hezbollah, not Hamas, I would point out that many of Hezbollah members are civilians.

Members of an organization that shoots missiles over international borders and stockpiles arms cannot be called civilians.

That would apply to Americans and Israelis too.
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