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Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

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Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineer : hey I made this cool thing that can help people in public safety roles process information and make decisions more efficiently! It gives false positives but you save more time than it takes less time to weed through them. Someone nearby : well what if they use it to replace human thinking instead of augment it? Engineer : well they would be ridiculous. Nobody would ever think that’s a good idea. Marketing…

Refer to the post office scandal in Britain and the robodebt debacle in Australia. The authorities are just itching to have their brains replaced with by dumb computer logic, without regard for community safety and wellbeing.

Lack of Accountability as-a-Service! Very attractive proposition to negligent and self-serving organizations. The people in charge don't even have to pay for it themselves, can just funnel the organization money to the vendor. Encouraging widespread adoption helps normalizes the practice. If anyone objects, shut them down as not thinking-of-the-children and something-must-be-done (and every other option is surely too complicated/expensive).

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#392
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about omnialert, not palantir, but don’t let the facts get in the way of your soapbox rant.

Same fallible systems, same end goal of mass surveillance.

That may be the case, but only one of them is actually responsible for armed police swarming this student and it wasn't Palantir. It seems very strange that you're so eager to give a free pass to the firm who actually was at fault here.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#393

What is happening in the world. There should be some liability for this but nothing will happen.

A bunch of companies and people invested unimaginable amounts of money in these technologies in the hope they will multiply that money. They will showe it down our throats no matter what, this isn't about security and making the world a better place, saving lives or preventing bad things to happen, this is strictly about those people and companies making as much money as possible, or at least for now not losing the money they invested.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't put a corporation in prison. But a person you can. This is one of the big problems. The people making the decisions at corporations are shielded from personal consequences by the corporation. A corporation can be shut down but it rarely happens. Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths of hundreds (especially the second crash was entirely preventable if they would have been honest after the first one),…

> Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths Since corporations aren't people, Boeing didn't know anything. Did someone at Boeing have all of that knowledge?

A drunk driver doesn't get to claim that they didn't know someone was in front of their car.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't put a corporation in prison. But a person you can. This is one of the big problems. The people making the decisions at corporations are shielded from personal consequences by the corporation. A corporation can be shut down but it rarely happens. Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths of hundreds (especially the second crash was entirely preventable if they would have been honest after the first one),…

> Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths Since corporations aren't people, Boeing didn't know anything. Did someone at Boeing have all of that knowledge?

I'm sure the top leadership was well aware of what happened after the first crash yes. They should have immediately gone public and would have prevented the second crash.

Don't forget that hiding MCAS from pilots and the FAA was a conscious decision. It wasn't something that 'just happened'. The decision to not make it depend on redundant AoA sensors by default too.

My point is, I can imagine that the MCAS suicidal side-effect was something unexpected (it was a technical failure edge-case in a specific and rare scenario) and I get that not anticipating it could have been a mistake, not a conscious decision. But after the first crash they should have owned up to it and not waited for a second crash.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even when Boeing knowingly caused the deaths Since corporations aren't people, Boeing didn't know anything. Did someone at Boeing have all of that knowledge?

I'm sure the top leadership was well aware of what happened after the first crash yes. They should have immediately gone public and would have prevented the second crash. Don't forget that hiding MCAS from pilots and the FAA was a conscious decision. It wasn't something that 'just happened'. The decision to not make it depend on redundant AoA sensors by default too. My point is, I can imagine that the MCAS suicidal s…

And who even cares if they knew?

Extenuating circumstances, at best.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#397
AI is a false (political) wish, it can and never work, it is the desperation of an over extended power structure to hold on and permanently consolodate controll of all of the worlds population, and nothing else.

the proofs are there.

philosophers mulled this over long ago and made clear statements as to why ai cant work

though not that for a second do I misdunderstand that it is "all in" for ai, and we all get to go for the 100 trillion dollar ride to hell.

can we have truely awsome automation for manufacturing and mundane beurocratic tasks?, fuck ya we can!

but anything that requires understanding, is forever out of reach, which unfortunatly is also lacking in the people pushing, this thing, now

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#398
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineer : hey I made this cool thing that can help people in public safety roles process information and make decisions more efficiently! It gives false positives but you save more time than it takes less time to weed through them. Someone nearby : well what if they use it to replace human thinking instead of augment it? Engineer : well they would be ridiculous. Nobody would ever think that’s a good idea. Marketing…

Nice fantasy, but the reality is that the "people in public safety roles" love using flimsy pretenses to harass and abuse vulnerable populations. I wish it was just overeager sales and marketing, but you're view of humanity is way too naive especially as masked thugs are disappearing people in the street as we type.

What? A) The naïveté of the engineer’s perspective was literally the whole point of the story. B) Saying I’m somehow absolving law enforcement by acknowledging other factors is absurd. My childhood best friend was shot and killed by police during a mental health crisis. C) If you think that police malevolence somehow absolves the tech world’s role in making tools for them, that’s as naive as it gets.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#399
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was swatted once. Girlfriend's house. Someone called 911 and said they'd seen me kill a neighbor, drag their body into the house, and was now holding my gf's family hostage. We answered the screams at the door to guns pointed at our faces, and countless cops. It was explained to us that this was the restrained version. We got a knock. Unfortunately, I understand why these responses can't be neutered too much. You j…

It doesn't make sense. If you were holding people hostage, you'd have demands for their release. Windows could be peeked into. If you dragged a dead body into a house, there'd be evidence of that.

[deleted]

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its likely procedure that they have to follow (see my other post in this thread.) I hate to say this but I get it. Imagine a scenario happens where they decide "sounds phony. stand down." only for it to be real and people are hurt/killed because the "cops ignored our pleas for help and did nothing." which would be a horrible mistake they could be liable for, never mind the media circus and PR damage. So they treat al…

Maybe we should move beyond binary thinking here. Yeah, it's worth sending someone to investigate but also making some effort to verify who the call is coming from - to get their identity, and to ask them something simple like to describe the house (in this example) so the arriving cops will know they go to the right address. Now of course you can get a description of the house with Google Street Maps, but 911 dispat…

Yes, there's a middle ground here.

My daughter was swatted, but at the time she lived in a town where the cops weren't militarized goon squads. What happened was two uniformed cops politely knocked on her door, had a chat with her, and asked if they could come in and look around. She allowed them, they thanked her and the issue was resolved.

This is the way. Investigate, even a little, before deploying great force.

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