Incidentally there is a open source S3 project in rust that I have been following. About a year ago, I applied Garage images to replace some minio instances used in CI pipelines - lighter weight and faster to come up.
MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
391–400 of 585 posts
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> half the price of S3 No one other than hobbyists is paying full price on AWS.
Maybe someone else somewhere is getting some unbelievably sweet deal but what I've seen from cloud discounting is more in the "single digit percentage" range than "2/3rds off" or something.
Even 1/3 of the AWS egress list price is a rip-off.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you’re being sarcastic but what you say is correct and true.
It can be correct and true while at the same time being bad-faith and user-hostile.
I’m a firm believer in open source and have decades of experience with it as an active community member.
There are two sides to this coin and tension in between.
On the one side license change rug pulls are annoying and deserve negative consequences.
On the other side, open source users are often far too entitled and demanding, contributing little and taking much.
At the end of the day the license terms are clear and users would do well to expect no more than the license says they’re entitled to expect.
Maybe then everyone can start being pleasantly surprised by each other’s behavior instead of both sides being disappointed by the other.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't stand the entitlement people (everyone, not one particular person) feel when they are provided things for free. Does it make you less frustrated to remember that humans are pattern recognition machines and our existence is essentially recognising and adapting to patterns, and so when someone does something repeatedly - regardless of if they're doing it for free - humans will recognise a pattern and adapt to…
> Does it make you less frustrated No. There is no valid justification, and the suggestion otherwise suggests a lack of understanding of what exactly these rude individuals are demanding. The very least people can do when receiving such quite extensive voluntary favors and dedication from others is to be polite and show proper gratitude and appreciation. Otherwise, they are not worth the personal and uncompensated sa…
They are also, by complaining, incentivizing other people to not even offer free services in the future. Why set yourself up for accusations that you're 'breaking your social contract' or whatnot?
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though. > people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. > You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images […] is appro…
> Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with. There was no contract or promise. The fact you're paying for their service doesn't buy you these…
When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with.
That has got to be the most fallacious analogy I've seen in a long time, and that's ignoring the fact that serving poop would get you in serious trouble in most jurisdictions. "False equivalence" barely covers it.
There is a basic social contract of not being an asshole to users of your product
Nope, nope...you win. Even more fallacious. Being an asshole to your users is a meme in OSS it's so common. Someone should tell that Linus guy about this 'social contract' he agreed to and signed that he's in violation of. /s
Claiming you support this philosophy, while acting against it, is hypocritical, and abusive towards people who do believe in it.
You think there's a philosophy. Some other people here do. There is no consistent OSS philosophy. There wasn't back when Stallman was thinking "what should I call this thing that is Not Unix" and there isn't today. If that was remotely true we'd still be happily using GPLv2. Because at the end of the day there is what is written in the license, and then there is wishful thinking. Sometimes wishful thinking results in nice things, and sometimes...well...here we are.
If you want to place restrictions on how your software is used and who gets to enjoy it, that's fine, but make those terms explicit by choosing the appropriate license and business model from the start.
Ignoring the laugh-out-loud silliness of "you should pick all these things about your startup day #1 and NEVER CHANGE THEM", exactly what terms of their OSS license did they violate? Be explicit. Don't wave your hand and say "but social contract that doesn't exist!", "but philosophy I made up and want to apply to people who didn't agree to it!". Because a license only means what's written down in it, not what we want it to mean. I get that you think there should be a "No assholes, we'll never, ever pivot to meet market changes and we pinky swear we won't rug pull on you" license that people should be forced to use, but I don't think to many people will sign up for it. See: GPLv2.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#396It's an Open Source project - I don't understand what people are complaining about. Noone is entitled to receive free Docker images. I'm sure if there is enough demand, someone else who is trustworthy will step up and automate building them. What I'd like to complain about instead is the pricing page on the Min.io webpage - it doesn't list any pricing. Looking at https://cloudian.com/blog/minios-ui-removal-leaves-org…
When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation, people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation. You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images especially after a CVE and with no prior notice (except a hidden commit 4 days ago that updated the README) is approaching malicious-level actions. If they truly cared ab…
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Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The price of support comes in at at slightly less than the equivalent amount of S3 storage That's absurd. I would be running to NetApp and Dell for competitive object storage quotes then. Haven't done pricing on either one recently but at least a few years ago they were roughly half the price of S3 all in (including hosting costs).
> half the price of S3 No one other than hobbyists is paying full price on AWS.
Is anyone getting discounts on S3? There's easy ways to save on compute like reserved instances but I haven't found anything for storage other than the tiering system.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
If anyone is wondering, the Dockerfile for this repo (thanks for sharing!) basically just copies the binary in, it is a 19 line dockerfile. I see both sides of the argument here, the people maintaining minio should not have to push docker images for free, it is work to maintain and test, especially across all the host platforms. And, this work isn't that complicated if you want to do it yourself. https://github.com/g…
>I see both sides of the argument here, the people maintaining minio should not have to push docker images for free, it is work to maintain and test, especially across all the host platforms. And, this work isn't that complicated if you want to do it yourself I don't. It's automated, it needs approximately zero attention. This is just a company that got where it was benefitting from open source taking the free toys a…
I've spent a lot of time trying to get pytorch working inside docker against cuda. That's a big challenge even just on one architecture. It isn't as simple as you make it to be and they have to determine how they allocate resources so they can pay people. I'm still grateful for this project and would rather they dice focus on functionally than packaging.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
They changed their license to AGPL, removed features (Web UI, etc.) and now they don't provide docker images/binaries. It's their project but; what's next?
> what's next? Removing existing Docker images? Seems unlikely.
It seems crazy that docker hub images are not immutable. Makes them really unreliable.
Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
An analogy to making a physical tool doesn’t really work because we have to basically describe what software is in terms of exceptions to the analogy. If I had a ratchet that, every time I turned it, I had to pay $.1, but I’d gotten it for free, but it was basically free to replicate, but the person who designed it did have to spend some significant work on R&D for the thing… I have no idea how I’d price that or how…
oh you really butchered that metaphor. The ratchet isn't what's getting paid in the metaphor, it's the person turning it. There's always a time-sink cost to a public project. Anyway, there's definitely a public good argument to turn certain software projects into utilities.
I don’t think that’s what they were going for. They said “ I'd be pissed if I had to pay $0.10 every time I turned a rachet” so the person turning the ratchet is the one paying. Who they pay to is unknown.