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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#391

Post by xen0 »

Demiurge wrote: post #389

This is slightly off-topic, but is it "jail" or "prison"? I see this switch all the time, and French does not make a difference. But, in English, and many other languages, jail is more specific than prison, and is usually for short term or pre-sentencing holding. If someone is sentenced, it's usually a different facility called "prison". Is BBC making a mistake, or are they actually saying Sarkozy will be held in in…

At least in British English usage, there is no distinction between Jail, Gaol, and Prison other than at least one of these is a dated word.

I believe only the US has a strong distinction between Prison and Jail.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#392

Post by aerostable_slug »

walkabout wrote: post #310
glenstein wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and in 2025 they are gaslighting me about ever having had those arguments at all This part is especially fascinating because I have heard of, and even had, remarkably similar experiences. The only real thing is the perpetual now. It's not even that they aren't curious or aware of what they said previously, they even emphatically deny their own words. I don't know if you remember when Ebola was a big news topic becau…

I have relatives who’ve been concerned enough about the “[democratic candidate] will take your guns!” thing that they’ve made and displayed signs about it. For multiple election cycles. That these same candidates, when elected, haven’t even attempted such a thing, even when they have an aligned Congress, doesn’t seem to register at all. They hear their lying talking heads say it again the next time, and believe it wh…

They would do it if they had the political capital, and further they will tell you as much.

Why would I not believe candidates who have spent their political life advocating the banning of the most popular rifle in America? When someone shows you what they are, believe them.

If Democrats want people to stop reacting that way, they need to commit to leaving law-abiding gun owners alone, not say "well it'll be fine, believe us" yet continue to campaign for bans and pass idiotic restrictions that do little to control crime.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#393

Post by NelsonMinar »

Demiurge wrote: post #389

This is slightly off-topic, but is it "jail" or "prison"? I see this switch all the time, and French does not make a difference. But, in English, and many other languages, jail is more specific than prison, and is usually for short term or pre-sentencing holding. If someone is sentenced, it's usually a different facility called "prison". Is BBC making a mistake, or are they actually saying Sarkozy will be held in in…

The relevant word here is "Prison", the French noun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Sant%C3%A9_Prison

The BBC article is using the two terms interchangably. Very few readers are concerned about the distinction you are making.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#394

Post by aerostable_slug »

handelaar wrote: post #304
scotty79 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably russian money is involved in this campaign of discord.

(Fellow readers: this is not kneejerk Russia-bashing but a reference to the recorded fact that Sarkozy has received at least hundreds of thousands of euro from Russian government-linked entities, apparently in exchange for favours.) For example: https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/international/110123/nic... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/15/france-investi...

That doesn't mean their intelligence services aren't also stoking various fires, some calling for more inquiries. Discord is to their benefit.

A politician who is no longer able to exert influence going to prison isn't a big loss to them, in fact it's arguably a good outcome. They get to have had favors while Sarkozy was in office and an angry France now that's he's out.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#395

Post by aerostable_slug »

sdsd wrote: post #368
tauwauwau wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

So the idea is this will rehabilitate Sarkozy? Do you believe that this experience will rehabilitate Sarkozy, or even that he's an active threat to commit more crimes in the future? It seems like the only conceivable social benefit of incarcerating him is to punish him for corruption as a deterrent to others. But his luxury prison room probably won't do that, so it's basically just an expensive legal formality to sat…

It's not a luxury room like drug lords have had in corrupt countries. He's in the VIP wing, which means life generally sucks except he won't have to worry about random violence or gang politics. It's a lot better than normal prisoners get, but it's hardly a vacation.

I agree that the point is punishment and deterrence to other public officials, proving no one is truly out of reach of the law.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#396

Post by lugu »

tsoukase wrote: post #178

A former Prime Minister of a first world country in jail is insane. He must have made a crime without the help of others because in political scandals usually a whole gang of public people is liable. Then you have to convict the monkey with the bananas and the whole tree. If we follow the French justice, in my country (Greece) about 10% of people including almost all the politicians of the last decades should be in j…

His gang went way off track. The big picture is pretty wild and his involvement started in the 90s. This isn't your average politician stealing money.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#398

Post by lugu »

ytNumbers wrote: post #214

There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.

Some are corrupted by power, other by the desire to get into power. He belongs to the second group.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#399

Post by epolanski »

pessimizer wrote: post #370
epolanski wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think propaganda is only obvious when it involves topics you follow or now intimately.

This is untrue. What makes it seem true is that there are extremely bad or nonsensical arguments that some people will accept (often without examination) when they support their own predetermined (often by lifestyle) side, but they will be far more critical of any argument that supports the other side. They spot the bad arguments on the other side and call them out, but ignore the good ones because they cause stress.…

I don't get the whole point of your post.

What I meant is that general media (either social or legacy) has often strong biases and narratives and at certain times it gets too much to the point of propaganda.

But, if you're not very intimate in some topic, or have not been part of the events it's not that obvious.

Few examples.

1. Almost a million people protested the war in Gaza few weeks ago here in Italy, in many cities, but if you turned on the tv (any channel really) or read the news this was skipped and instead the entirety of the focus was on few limited clashes with the entire narrative being built about how if you protest for Gaza you're automatically violent and antisemitic. Nonsense.

1.5 At an anti-Covid protest in Piazza San Giovanni, a place that comfortably holds half a million people, the place was ultra full, as packed as during concerts...But ask the police and the official numbers were below 10k. Ridiculous, it was at least 15 times as much. I wasn't part of the protests but lived nearby so I had a full account.

2. Around 15 years ago our main airline (Alitalia) was in terrible shape and Air France-KLM wanted to buy it out, pay the debts and retain most of the workforce. Non stop bombarding on every outlet about how we could not sell our main company, and that taxpayers would foot the bill. The bombarding went on with plenty of interviews of how Alitalia staff was in favor of this operation, but I had several friends working for the company and actually the opposite was true: most of them supported the merger rather than the bailout, but the propaganda did its best to silence these voices.

Again, how would you know about those things if you were not intimately knowledgeable about the topics?

I really don't have time to get knowledgeable and fact check or be part of every world, national and local event. Thus I'm not equipped with distinguishing a genuine fact based narrative from a biased one.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#400

Post by nailer »

aj_hackman wrote: post #300
Aurornis wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. How much of this is driven by contrarian and counter-cyclical reporting? I’m not familiar with French media, but I see the same pattern in every country where I’ve kept up with the news: Media starts being favorable to a topic when it’s up and coming, switching to being highly…

I don't think this is a deliberate ruse, but news organizations giving in to public pressure. I remember the NBC coverage of the conflict in Gaza in the days immediately following October 7, and how their narrative swung rapidly as public consensus against the IDF developed.

The public pressure against “the IDF” (but really against Jewish people) came from Qatari sponsorship of US higher education. If you dislike AIPAC you should dislike Qatar much more, for their budget is much higher.
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