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Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#391

Post by zenmac »

numlock86 wrote: post #238

> Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels A more fitting title would be "Germany's citizens outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels". The current phrasing makes it sound like it's somehow a thing done by the government, which is not the case. If anything the government is one of the many forces slowing down this progress. And yes, I am aware of things like grid security and stability…

Unless it is related to weapons or the project that will ultimately benefit big corps, project will not work out using central government policy. With revolving doors and sophisticated lobbing, at this point government seems just like different side of the same coin as big corp.

Things can really only be DONE on the grass root local level.

Edit: actually even some of the weapons projects are not working out so well.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#392

Post by detaro »

jansan wrote: post #390
krior wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and the reactivation of old nuclear power stations would have been instant and cost nothing. Exactly what was needed in 2022. /s

Three nuclear reactors were still running in 2022, and shutting them down was not inevitable.

That none of the energy companies went "oh, yes, totally, give us a few billions of the special budgets for dealing with the consequences of the war and we'll happily keep them running" should tell you something about the viability of that.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#393

Post by BoredPositron »

mbeex wrote: post #352
BoredPositron wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a lot of historical revision if you blame a dude who was minister for 3.5 years about decisions made 20-30 years ago. Same for your last paragraph. Nothing even close to that happened in the years he governed. Maybe you should start showing recipes because it looks like your grievances are personal in nature and everything but factual.

> it looks like your grievances are personal Given the changing voting behavior in Germany, these personal complaints seem to be quite widespread.

It's fine to have those grievances if you can articulate them factual. Hell they are even fine if you can't. The only thing I am saying is that you don't need to make stuff up just to give those grievances weight or convey others to your sentiment...

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#394

Post by ReptileMan »

watwut wrote: post #315
GordonS wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is satire... right?

1.) Russia is already sending drones to border countries. 2.) Russian politicians openly talk about such possibility. 3.) Russian interest in expansion is no secret. War with Russia is a real possibility. Considering NATO is not reliable anymore (due USA being less then reliable partner) , considering China seem to low key support Russia, it is not even crazy from the Russian side.

>War with Russia is a real possibility

No it is not because of 3 reasons:

1. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO 2. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO 3. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO

War with russia is mostly hawks' and chicken littles' of the media wet dreams.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#395

Post by DrScientist »

weinzierl wrote: post #335
cjpearson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

And it barely works out in Germany. I did the math for my small city flat with a small south facing balcony and got a realistic payback period of 6 years. The issue is not solar per se, but that tiny installations are not very efficient. It'd make much more sense to bolster funding for building sized installations.

The other aspect of this is the reduction of demand on the grid - which potentially reduces infrastructure costs ( or reduces the rise ) and hence shows up in a reduction in electricity prices ( if not absolute, against where they would be ).

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#396

Post by pembrook »

It's clear that hackernews is a DIY crowd and loves this idea. I'm pro letting people do whatever they want and whatever makes them feel good.

HOWEVER, I have to point out how incredibly silly this is. There is a reason why historically we have pooled our resources under the government to produce and manage energy infrastructure centrally.

Let's say these 500,000 individuals instead pooled their 1,000 euro (including installation & time) and funded one industrial-scale solar development.

You could generate a renewable 600MW+ (a 4X factor on what these randomly placed individual units will ever deliver in reality) for that money. And efficient centralized battery storage also becomes an option there.

Then your fellow citizens can spend time creating surplus value in the field they are actually experts in and also you don't have a 3rd world hellscape of outdated balcony solar units to look at out your window for the next 30 years.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#397

Post by slightwinder »

walthamstow wrote: post #339
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Nuclear has no relevance in Germany, never really had. The plants barely added any value to the market. When Habeck became Minister, most Nuclear plants were already gone, and the last remaining were phasing out, lacking nuclear fuel and permits. Habeck even gave a permit for the last plants to run some more months, squeezing out even the last parts of fuel as much as they could, just so they could serve as an additional supply in a problematic winter, which turned out to be unnecessary in the end.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#398

Post by lavela »

raffael_de wrote: post #353
walthamstow wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

[flagged]

Mind sharing that documentation or spelling out what you mean by that or are you not going to consider different views on that anyways?

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#399

Post by weinzierl »

jopsen wrote: post #371
weinzierl wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it barely works out in Germany. I did the math for my small city flat with a small south facing balcony and got a realistic payback period of 6 years. The issue is not solar per se, but that tiny installations are not very efficient. It'd make much more sense to bolster funding for building sized installations.

A building sized thing has much higher installation costs. And you can't DIY it, it's not just plug and play.

That is true and it is where the regulation and bureaucracy comes in. I vouch for making building installations low friction and better subsidized.

Security will make this never as simple as balcony plug and play but there is a lot of room for improvement.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#400

Post by martin_a »

weinzierl wrote: post #335
cjpearson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

And it barely works out in Germany. I did the math for my small city flat with a small south facing balcony and got a realistic payback period of 6 years. The issue is not solar per se, but that tiny installations are not very efficient. It'd make much more sense to bolster funding for building sized installations.

I think you should be better off.

I did a small installation at my parents house with two panels at south-southwest-orientation with a 600 W inverter for around 800 Euro.

Turns out those two panels have created over 1.1 MWh since the late summer of 2023. With cost dropping heavily, your ROI should be much sooner.

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