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Open Social

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Re: Open Social

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why Bluesky could never have "private likes" in the same way Twitter or ActivityPub does I didn't know "private likes" even existed, but if atproto includes public key encryption, I could publish a record containing a "like" that I have encrypted with the "liked" user's public key. Only that user would know what the record contained. Though, the fact that the encrypted message exists and had a cleartext "@n…

... if Bluesky users owned their private key.

I think the lack of owner's custody of the private key in bluesky is more the result of a convenience design than of a technical limitation. If the user is expected to manage the private key, you might end up with something similar in complexity to Nostr. But it might still be possible if you're running your own PDS.

Re: Open Social

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the AT protocol is improving in the right direction, but the numbers still say it's highly centralized and therefore closed social media owned by one monolithic entity. AP has its issues, namely not being at all consistent, but that trade-off allows anyone to run all the components of the network without breaking their bank.

AP is just “many small centralized services that email each other”. Its scaling characteristics reflect that - of course running a “little Twitter for 100 people” is cheap. But it’s a completely different thing. You could “scale down” atproto in the same way, but the point of atproto is that you can aim higher than niche islands. ActivityPub doesn’t attempt to solve any of the same issues that atproto does — there’s…

I agree that AT aims high, maybe a little too high.

To me Fediverse is basically all the forums we had in the 90s and 00s, but now they can talk to each other. So with that said, I am principally against huge instances like mastodon.social and such.

While bsky is more like decentralized Twitter, meaning it also requires a significant chunk of the resources of Twitter to run consistently. Which is also why it has not decentralized yet, and probably won't any time soon.

We have to ask ourselves, what is the point of decentralization? What is the USP?

To me the USP is that no one person or entity can buy it, sell it, or ruin it.

If we had to start over from scratch then I think AT would be a good way to start, because it would presumably not be federated with bsky and therefore low volume. But as volume grows it becomes harder and harder to maintain for small groups and eventually they all consolidate into big groups that are easier to take over and ruin.

Basically it's a difficult decision we have to make, a trade-off between consistency, and decentralization. Which do you value more?

Me never having been on Twitter, and coming from that era of the 90s and 00s, I value decentralization and small groups participating in a federated network more than large entities.

How I envision the future of social media, all these actors like bsky, Twitter, Meta, Fediverse will continue existing side by side, but Fediverse will likely be the smallest and most niche of them all. Fedi has, to me, taken the place of all those old message boards I used to hang on, while the rest are mainstream social media that made its entrance onto the world wide web back in early 00s with Facebook.

Re: Open Social

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My post retraces a historical progression of social media, and it was indeed called "Twitter" at the time. You can scroll a bit down and you'll see "X" a bit below. In general, actually reading the articles you comment on won't hurt you.

I did read the thread — and I’m specifically referring to the third (and final) diagram where it still literally labels X as “Twitter.” No amount of timeline layout gymnastics explains that. It feels less like faithful documentation and more like a pretext to take a swipe at the acquisition by “some guy,” which then segues into the whole “getting cooked by the algorithm” bit.

That's clinging to straws. Many of us still prefer to call it Twitter since the new name makes no sense, especially when placed in a sentence.

Re: Open Social

#394
post #34

Open source has clearly won. This is clearly a wild claim that almost undermines the rest of the argument, but to the extent that we can accept that there are open source software packages that decision-makers deep in that industry will reliably choose for their business...it's not clear how this revolution will extend to "regular people." They just want easy. Make something as easy and fun as Instagram. They don't g…

In the tech industry, open source has clearly won. You're right that most end users don't particularly care. The engineers building solutions definitely care, and prefer to build on top of open source dependencies.

Re: Open Social

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “Bluesky API” is the appview, but the avatar is stored in your PDS. Even if you’re using a PDS hosted by Bluesky, it’s a different component that’s being asked to serve the avatar.

Interesting. Ok just saw this https://github.com/bluesky-social/pds > Self-hosting a Bluesky PDS means running your own Personal Data Server that is capable of federating with the wider ATProto network. So pds (personal data server) is like the container where you chose to store the data and it follows a certain standard. If the container is hosted is bluesky, i still consider it a "bluesky api" but I understand the…

I think I understand the theory. But in fact it looks like tangled.sh is indeed using a "proprietary" Bluesky API rather than... e.g. calling `danabra.mov` right away to fetch his avatar: https://tangled.org/@tangled.org/core/blob/master/avatar/src...

... or am I misunderstanding?

Re: Open Social

#397

I don't have a horse in which decentralized protocol wins, but while ATProtocol sounds great on paper I'm still inching closer to liking ActivityPub more. I'm pretty active on Lemmy[1] which is quite active and fun to browse 1. 99.99% (literally) of AT users are on Bluesky, which is helmed by a for-profit corporation. The argument is that they don't control the protocol but considering it is THE dominating instance o…

> considering it is THE dominating instance of that protocol, Instances don't work like they do on mastodon. There's not really a "dominating instance" in the same way. Heck, even within Bluesky's infra, there are multiple PDSes. Basically, stuff is layered in a different way (which the article shows the details of) and so talking about the structure of things ends up working differently. > what's stopping them from…

>I believe they have shown themselves to be good stewards

How have they shown theyselves to good stewards? Its barely been popular and no where near the point where they can start enshitifying it. All the PBC talk is empty and they still maintain complete control.

Re: Open Social

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What irks me is that in the end of the day if you go to Bluesky it's all American politics and if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. Maybe it's because I don't like monster of the week political drama, but I still don't see a reason to use them instead of Tumblr, Pinterest, or even TikTok.

This is very true, and it's a large part of why I never use microblogging at all, it's impossible to just find posts that fit what you want to see. That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill.

linux - cats - games on lemmy for the best feed

Re: Open Social

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What irks me is that in the end of the day if you go to Bluesky it's all American politics and if you go to literally any mastodon instance it's all American politics. Maybe it's because I don't like monster of the week political drama, but I still don't see a reason to use them instead of Tumblr, Pinterest, or even TikTok.

This is very true, and it's a large part of why I never use microblogging at all, it's impossible to just find posts that fit what you want to see. That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill.

> That's why I mostly use Lemmy/Piefed because everything is neatly organized into communities that you can subscribe to. I mostly browse tech & gaming communities and my feed is very chill.

I wish that were also my experience with Lemmy. Even the communities and posts not focused on American politics are often about American politics. Discussion quickly devolves into some pretty extreme (and often violent) leftwing American political rhetoric. I understand Piefed can block whole instances, so maybe I should try that before I give up.

Re: Open Social

#400
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Ok just saw this https://github.com/bluesky-social/pds > Self-hosting a Bluesky PDS means running your own Personal Data Server that is capable of federating with the wider ATProto network. So pds (personal data server) is like the container where you chose to store the data and it follows a certain standard. If the container is hosted is bluesky, i still consider it a "bluesky api" but I understand the…

I think I understand the theory. But in fact it looks like tangled.sh is indeed using a "proprietary" Bluesky API rather than... e.g. calling `danabra.mov` right away to fetch his avatar: https://tangled.org/@tangled.org/core/blob/master/avatar/src... ... or am I misunderstanding?

That does look weird to me. I would expect it to more generic because this would be miss data stored in PDS outside bluesky. At least according to my layman understanding.
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