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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

391–400 of 809 posts

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#391

Digital IDs will be used to restrict your internet access. They'll roll them out gradually. You won't need one at first. You'll still show your passport, driving license etc, until one day you give up because the digital version is convenient and you "might as well". What's your problem? Why do you care? Have you got something to hide? Then they'll attack the easiest target: porn. We already have age-verification law…

That all sounds plausible, but why doesn't it happen in other EU countries where digital ID is required?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#393
post #387
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between proportional voting vs winner takes it all. In the latter case you can't really hold politicians accountable, as you will have to choose between effectively throwing your vote away or voting for the one opposition candidate, that often will be just as bad. While the UK have some level of representativeness, each circuit has a winner takes it all structure, making change quite hard to achie…

It's the opposite of what you say. Proportional representation isn't accountable because you don't know what coalition you're voting for - coalitions are done in backrooms after the election. Winner takes all is more accountable because the coalitions are done before the election (aka political parties). Parties are made up of different factions and they're agreed before the election.

I think he's right, actually. It rings true with what we see here in the Netherlands. People don't feel like they're "throwing their vote away" if they vote for a minor party, so politicians can't have a laid back attitude.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#394

Can anyone really point me out the real problem about the immigrants? How big is it compared to, for example the lack of funding of the NHS or the hyper funding of other initiatives such as war in Ukraine. Or are those things somehow related? I would be crazily scared to know that immigrant care workers will leave NHS as most hospitals relies on them. The government already made clear they won't pay people more nor w…

>Can anyone really point me out the real problem about the immigrants? This minimises the problem. The UK voters have consistently voted for reduced immigration, with polls showing the preferred number to be somewhere between 0-100,000. Those elected have consistently ignored them which has raised tensions. In the last few years, the UK had around 1 million people net per year. 1 million people is bigger than most ci…

I think there's some conflation happening here (not necessarily from the above comment).

Those figures relate to general immigration, which wouldn't be affected by ID schemes since people are given approval by the government to arrive and work in the UK. If the government wanted to reduce regular immigration, it could just decide to award less visas.

The ID scheme would only affect irregular immigration which is much lower (approx 50,000 a year by the governments stats, obviously hard to know how accurate that is, but much lower than 1 million[0]).

[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-...

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#395
post #260

> Stored on mobile phones, the ID would contain details including a name, date of birth, residency status and crucially a photo - which would distinguish it from National Insurance numbers. Surely it will be possible to also store it on some government-issued, GCHQ-vetted digital device, and not rely on foreign companies (Google/Apple) and their locked-down mobile platforms?

They've already said you won't need a mobile phone. They mention phones as a deliberate distraction from the fact that they will be building a huge central database. I will be very surprised if the app does much more than dish up a pre-signed chunk of ID data, much like an e-passport does now. It won't actually need a secure device. (Which isn't to say they will support anything except android and iphone.)

They have said it will work for people who "aren’t able to use a smartphone". Nothing is said about people who are able but unwilling. I can only assume I will forced to submit to the terms and conditions of a foreign corporation, and forced to use non-Free software.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#396
post #210
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. British governments have always been increasingly authoritarian. The stated reason is to stop illegals working. Unfortunately we have an ID for working, called a national insurance number. We literally can't get legally paid without it. So a National ID card ... Is irrelevant. You still need this number for benefits, etc. I've got an NI number, a driving license and a passport. Not to mention a NHS number…

NI is not ID for working. It's a tax identifier. The ID for working system is https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work , with its digital ID "share code" https://www.gov.uk/view-right-to-work (what does the digital ID scheme add to this again?)

The share code stuff is not for nationals. It’s not clear to me exactly how it works and whether it’s scalable.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#397
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between proportional voting vs winner takes it all. In the latter case you can't really hold politicians accountable, as you will have to choose between effectively throwing your vote away or voting for the one opposition candidate, that often will be just as bad. While the UK have some level of representativeness, each circuit has a winner takes it all structure, making change quite hard to achie…

This might be a "grass is greener" thing. Do elected representatives actually have higher approval rating, or enact policies that better fit with public opinion, under proportional systems? Sure it'd probably make things a little better, but it won't actually solve anything hard, I think. All Western countries are struggling (and mostly failing) to deal with the same problems regardless of details like electoral syst…

With proportionate representation you get what _should_ happen, in my opinion, which is sometimes nothing. If the coalition can't decide on something, then it doesn't happen, which is the correct outcome because not enough people agree about it. It represents the people (who also can not agree on it).

The alternative is a decision that most people don't agree with.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#398
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and to be paid via PAYE you need a NI number. The prove right to work is a slightly newer thing thats additional

The nuance is that you can have a NI number, then have your visa lapse for whatever reason - you still have the NI number. Hence the requirement to prove your right to work through another means. Previously you could use proof of British nationality or a physical biometric residence card - but they've been replaced by the digital share code system (which tbh hasn't been too bad)

No, those are still the ways of proving you have the right to work, it’s only if you’re not a national that you need the share code.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#399

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

Italy has got an ID card since forever. Of course it was a piece of paper, it's a piece of plastic with a chip now. There is some experimentation to move that into the state app.

Everything accelerates when it becomes digital, for the better or for the worse. One thing that an ID does not do is preventing crime and allowing only legal jobs. People find a lot of ways to circumvent the rules as long as there are money to earn.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#400
We already have multiple forms of identification. The National Insurance number, passports and photo ID such as driving licences, which we must provide when starting employment.

If you're not from Britain, you must present evidence of your right to work or other documentation. This is already the law.

Any company that does not follow this is violating the law.

In reality, most illegal workers are engaged in cash-in-hand jobs that never require ID. A digital ID alone will not solve this problem.

Adding a digital ID won't make any difference.

We've also seen similar issues with the UK's attempt to censor adult content "to protect children." It sounds reasonable on the surface (no child should have open access to the internet!). Still, the law was written so broadly that even community clubs involving children with no relation to adult content were caught in its provisions.

Threatened by fines and bureaucratic red tape, many closed their doors. International sites that had no idea what to do - now block the UK. And did this stop access to explicit content? No. Anyone can use a VPN, or an anonymity-oriented browser like Brave and use a Tor tab to bypass the blocks completely. For the non-technical, how long before these Age ID check services, which the government wants everyone to use (private companies owned mainly by adult companies), are hacked and everyone's viewing habits are released?

How long before we're required to use our Digital ID to log on to the internet, enabling monitoring of everything we browse?

A more innovative approach would be for ISPs to by default integrated parental controls on residential connections, something that has been technically possible for decades. In fact, any mobile phone contract in the UK operates similarly. Why not home internet? This isn't about new legislation; it's about education.

Parents already understand why they shouldn't give alcohol or tobacco to their children; why not teach them how to protect their children online?

The new NHS app and driving licence app are expected to be available by the end of 2025. How long before they're integrated into a single system where the government maintains one massive database containing every individual's driving information, medical records, browsing history, banking and tax details? It's not far-fetched to imagine such overreach occurring.

Also as of this week, HMRC (our UK tax office) also now has the right to raid any UK bank account for taxes owed (leaving only £5,000 in the account). This applies to both individuals and companies. Consider a company that becomes insolvent days before paying salaries how will they pay their workers? Some companies have already become insolvent after paying wages while still owing taxes and National Insurance. Just HMRC now get their money and the employees won’t.

I realise there are several loosely connected points above, but that's precisely the problem: all these developments have emerged over the past 18 months.

So when the UK government claims these measures are "for the people," the argument falls flat.

It's difficult to believe that policymakers don't recognise these fundamental flaws.

This raises the question: what's the real motivation? To me, it seems less about protection and more about monitoring and control, implemented by people too afraid to speak against their superiors.

At nearly 50, I see a UK very different from the one I was born into. One thing I know for sure: once this process begins, it will only worsen, and a new government will maintain these systems and extend them further. We left Europe - but kept every single law! As a nation, we just allow all of this to happen. It’s the British way!

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