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Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#391

Post by SahAssar »

python273 wrote: post #287
maz1b wrote: post #26

It's unfortunate that email hosting and email infrastructure can really be done only well by major players. The days of people running and maintaining their own are pretty much long gone. Fwiw, not a knock against CF. I like their products, mostly simple, fair pricing, etc. Just a bit unfortunate commentary on the state of email infra on the internet.

It's really not that hard to run a mailserver with https://github.com/docker-mailserver/docker-mailserver The problem is that Gmail will bounce any emails from DigitalOcean IP, even if you sit on this IP for years (so no recent spam), even if replying to someone, even if you registered as 'Postmaster' on Google. So if you want to selfhost, you'll first need to find an IP that's not blocked to begin with.

That is not my experience at all. Using a pretty fresh IP and domain I get pretty good deliverability as long as I have proper rDNS and all the other normal steps (like DKIM, etc.)

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#392

Post by arevno »

nemomarx wrote: post #373
osigurdson wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Currently it's up to Cloudflare to decide whether you will read that article or not. How is Cloudflare gatekeeping things? I believe you but don't understand the mechanism.

Cloudflare sends certain users they think are bots into infinite captcha loops - the wrong user agent or tor endpoint can do it

Yes, it's unfortunate that a network service provider whose primary business model is checks notes preventing network abuse would try to detect and prevent abuse via various heuristics such as captchas.

I also agree that Cloudflare should get all the blame here, since none of their customers voluntarily chose to use them, and Cloudflare doesn't give their customers a huge variety of options for bot detection sensitivity.

Matt Prince personally kidnaps CTOs and waterboards them until they agree to use Cloudflare, and the thousands of configuration options and rule combinations on the WAF are just for show - customers can't actually use them.

What an evil, evil company.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#393

Post by SahAssar »

aprilnya wrote: post #301
freetonik wrote: post #62

Finally. My two production projects are built entirely on Cloudflare workers platform, and I dread every time I have to login into AWS to manage SES. I even wrote a note for myself with instructions which buttons to press and where to navigate, like you'd write for your elderly relative who's "not good with technology".

Honestly this is why I like what Cloudflare is building nowadays. They aren’t just a CDN but rather they’re becoming a full on cloud, like AWS and Azure are - except their developer experience is just so incredibly better than any other cloud

My experience is pretty much the opposite. Bad support for common APIs like S3, terrible support for terraform/opentofu, none/lackluster help in support or github issues.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#394

Post by aetherspawn »

aprilnya wrote: post #301
freetonik wrote: post #62

Finally. My two production projects are built entirely on Cloudflare workers platform, and I dread every time I have to login into AWS to manage SES. I even wrote a note for myself with instructions which buttons to press and where to navigate, like you'd write for your elderly relative who's "not good with technology".

Honestly this is why I like what Cloudflare is building nowadays. They aren’t just a CDN but rather they’re becoming a full on cloud, like AWS and Azure are - except their developer experience is just so incredibly better than any other cloud

One thing I like about Cloudflare is that each product makes sense on its own, not like AWS: go make access policies in one place, ACLs in another, and before you know it you have no idea how anything works without taking an AWS Certified Consultant course.

Cloudflare feels like separate silos, each individually complete and usable. And the “minimum viable path to make-this-work” is usually 1-2 button presses, rather than filling in pages and pages of configs.

I also love that Cloudflare is scoped under each domain, it helps keep my projects separate.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#395

Post by wahnfrieden »

godelski wrote: post #387
chipgap98 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not a problem with the law rather than a problem with Cloudflare?

Also, remember that time that Cloudflare didn't take down a Nazi website because they didn't want to be arbiters of the internet but then everyone accused Cloudflare of supporting Neo Nazis. That this led to boycotts so they ended up taking down the site and wrote a blog post being like "fine, but this is dumb" That didn't really have to do with the law. You could segue it was a free market action. Though there were…

Or the time they knowingly employed a Nazi

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#396

Post by elhenrico »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #362
dpifke wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your HN profile, I see you're in Brazil, which is part of the region IANA has delegated to LACNIC. Per [0], LACNIC has further delegated numbering authority in Brazil to Registro.br. Following the links on that page (or performing a simple Google search) leads one to: https://registro.br/tecnologia/numeracao/como-solicitar/ [0]: https://www.lacnic.net/1016/2/lacnic/ip-request

Looks like I need to become a literal ISP then. Before I even start this bureaucratic process, I need to create an actual organization. Then I need to be assigned an ASN. Only then I'll be allowed to beg them for IPs. Once all that's taken care of, I need to tell them things like what the IPs will be used for and what my infrastructure is. If they like my answer, then they'll approve my request and finally tell me wh…

https://registro.br/tecnologia/numeracao/custos/ Setup R$ 14.080,00 (~ 2,624 USD) anual cost R$ 3.379,20 (~ 630 USD)

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#397

Post by _heimdall »

egorfine wrote: post #219
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

> the internet was worse without Cloudflare It had much more freedom. Currently it's up to Cloudflare to decide whether you will read that article or not. Tomorrow some stupid law will mandate certain ideas to be hidden from children[1] and Cloudflare will happily comply. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

Nearly any company under a government's jurisdiction will comply to a legal order to censor content, especially if its done in the claimed goal of protecting children.

Those companies that don't comply will be shut down or targeted in some way if the legal order had any political teeth behind it.

There's no way around that unfortunately, short of limiting government power in the first place so such an order would never be lawful.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#398

Post by gundmc »

t_mahmood wrote: post #230
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

We said the same thing with Google, "Don't be evil", "They are better than MS", now here we are, Google, became something that doing everything to squeeze every data off us, so that they can sell them to their partners. And, anything that stops them from doing it, well, you are kind of erased from the Internet. The freedom we had, slowly becoming non-existent now. Corporates have one and only one target. It is to mak…

Google doesn't sell data, they sell ads

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#399

Post by ccakes »

stingraycharles wrote: post #68
mosura wrote: post #4

Eventually all Internet protocols will be MITMed by cloudflare. Your single point of interception!

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

If you're a normal person in a country that Cloudflare considers "scammy" - your internet experience is very different from someone based in the US. Your personal online behaviour is irrelevant

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#400

Post by _heimdall »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #395
godelski wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, remember that time that Cloudflare didn't take down a Nazi website because they didn't want to be arbiters of the internet but then everyone accused Cloudflare of supporting Neo Nazis. That this led to boycotts so they ended up taking down the site and wrote a blog post being like "fine, but this is dumb" That didn't really have to do with the law. You could segue it was a free market action. Though there were…

Or the time they knowingly employed a Nazi

Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you?

And no this is not an attempt to in anyway belittle what Nazi German did during WWII. Assuming the employee you are referring to has never been engaged in such acts, though, that feels like a very slippery slope.

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