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PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

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Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#391
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually the local money is even worst. (Hi from Argentina! Not so bad this year so far...)

Is it really "usually?" I think that people often think of the worse cases (Argentina, etc). Looking at https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FP.CPI.TOTL.ZG?most_rec... , the US is at 103, there are 102 countries with worse inflation, and 215 with better. From https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/wld/wor... , the Global Average Inflation rate for 2023 was 5.7%, more than the US but not out of control.…

"Usually" in the countries that need it. The problem with the 102 countries with less inflation is that some years it may be less, but other much more.

IIRC in hindsight at the beginning of 2024 the best was to exchange all your saved dollars to pesos, invest them in bonds or the bank, and exchange them for dollars at the end of the year. Probably you can get a 20% yoy increase. But there was a risk or many unexpected problems that would let you with a lot of monopoly money that is worth only a 50% of the initial value... So the safe option was to keep your savings in dollars.

Euros are another safe option. Pounds are very difficult to exchange. The money of nearby countries is sometimes better, but they may have unexpected surprises too.

> I don't know what the effect is called, but suddenly some unrest in some country or inflation in another calls for creating a whole new money system. It seems unreasonable and I'm a bit suspicious of where it comes from.

I agree.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto was supposed to be an alternative to all this but, well, look how that worked out. Bitcoin hasn't really changed in over a decade and is trading at all time highs. What "didn't work out" in your mind?

None of my clients can pay me for my work in bitcoin without first turning real money into bitcoin, with fees involved. I can't pay my rent with bitcoin without turning it into real money, with fees involved. I can't go to the market and buy food with bitcoin. I can't see someone begging outside Walgreens and help them out with some bitcoin. Bitcoin's also volatile enough that there's a significant risk of its value…

So you admit all of the problems would disappear if everyone used it?

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto was supposed to be an alternative to all this but, well, look how that worked out. Bitcoin hasn't really changed in over a decade and is trading at all time highs. What "didn't work out" in your mind?

It hasn't solved the problem it set out to solve. We still have to chose between untrustworthy middlemen for handling our payment infrastructure. It gave up a decade ago. I wouldn't call that "working out".

  have to chose
Interesting oxymoron. If everyone used it what problems would remain?

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#394
post #359
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fallacy. It's rational to buy stuff when it's cheap and sell stuff when it's expensive. Not the other way around. In other words, if the money gets suddenly more valuable, people would go on a shopping spree, which would cause inflation and the value would return back to normal. They wouldn't wait for it to be even more valuable. The situation would be different if there was a guarantee of deflation, but th…

You're trying to rewrite decades of economic theory in a single comment. You can just Google "deflation great depression" and "elasticity of demand". Think about the opposite side of the coin. You have car that is ok but want a better one. The better one costs $35k. In a few months, it will be $30k and a few more $25k. When will you buy it? Deflation is kryptonite to consumer spending.

I'm not rewriting anything, this is called time preference, a well-known concept. High-% deflation happens to consumer electronics all the time. You get the same product much cheaper or a better product with the same price if you wait. Still people buy these products, because they want / need them now. Sure, the rate of inflation / deflation will shift the average time preference, but it's not that drastic and doesn't cause a spiral.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#395
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of cash is that it represents transferrable value that doesn't require an intermediary between you and the person you're transacting with. And yet, banks and credit card companies exist and deal with cash. This does not mean that cash is a useless concept.

Okay and the key difference between crypto and cash/credit/whatever is supposedly that it is decentralized. Or have we abandoned that false premise now?

Cash has centralized distribution, but it's very decentralized in use. That's what makes it useful. However, sometimes people might choose to use a centralized service provider (like a bank, or a credit card company) because it's useful. They still have the option of using cash. What's important isn't that every single transaction happens in a fully-decentralized way: it's that decentralized transactions remain an option. That means that banks and credit card companies have to compete with cash, and that they can never have full control of your financial life.

The same is true of cryptocurrency. It's not a problem that centralized service providers exist. If they stop providing useful services, people can just take their cryptocurrency and go home.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#396
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Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#397

I thought the whole point of a decentralised ledger was not needing companies like PayPal…

This point is conveniently missing. There's simply more money to be made! Now get out of here with your nonsense ideas of decentralizing money. It's bad for business.

Exactly why the crypto ideal failed.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of my clients can pay me for my work in bitcoin without first turning real money into bitcoin, with fees involved. I can't pay my rent with bitcoin without turning it into real money, with fees involved. I can't go to the market and buy food with bitcoin. I can't see someone begging outside Walgreens and help them out with some bitcoin. Bitcoin's also volatile enough that there's a significant risk of its value…

So you admit all of the problems would disappear if everyone used it?

Would everyone using it solve "the contents of my wallet fluctuate in value every day"?

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you admit all of the problems would disappear if everyone used it?

Would everyone using it solve "the contents of my wallet fluctuate in value every day"?

I invested in a shitcoin called USD in 2013 and now it's worth a lot less. I invested in BTC in 2016 and now it's worth a lot more. Positives and negatives to fiat and crypto and none are immune to having issues.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you admit all of the problems would disappear if everyone used it?

Would everyone using it solve "the contents of my wallet fluctuate in value every day"?

Literally yes. There wouldn't be a fiat currency to fluctuate against.
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