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ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

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Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#391

Post by veunes »

Nikolas0 wrote: post #168

My $0.02 as a response to several comments I read in this thread: I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 40s and got Concerta. My belief is that ADHD is not a disease, nor a disability (even though it acts like one very frequently) and in fact there is evidence that ADHD is an important part of our evolution as a species. The problem(s) mostly relies with the modern way of life and what is expected from the society at large…

Too often the conversation swings between "meds are bad" and "meds fix everything," when the truth is way more nuanced

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#392

Post by hirvi74 »

adastra22 wrote: post #328
LoganDark wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still struggle to see how it's used recreationally. - Adderall keeps you awake. Some people use that to be awake for very long periods of time. Long drives, marathons, etc. - Adderall can make boring tasks seem engaging, so it can be used, for example, to help a student study. Combining that with no need to sleep that night, can become a bit of an unfair advantage. - Adderall can cause a high, even though I've on…

> Adderall keeps you awake For many (not all) ADHD'ers, amphetamine or caffeine makes them sleepy. > Adderall can make boring tasks seem engaging This is true > so it can be used, for example, to help a student study ... can become a bit of an unfair advantage Unfair? This isn't sports. Nobody is being cheated by a study-enhancing drug. > Adderall can cause a high, even though I've only ever experienced that with pur…

> Interesting. FYI ADHD people feel none of that. If anything, the opposite: on stimulants ADHD people feel relaxed and normal, bringing them down from hyperactivity and allowing them to focus on their life.

That is common myth. It's a matter of dosage over time. If one takes 120mg of Adderall in one go, then I can assure you they will not be calm nor relaxed. The relaxed feeling comes with a build of tolerance over time and with the lowest therapeutic dosage possible.

I won't deny that people with ADHD might perceive more benefits from stimulants than those without ADHD. I person with poor vision probably would perceive more benefit from eyeglass than I do with 20/20 vision. The glasses work the same for both of us, I just don't benefit from the effects. Also, stimulants do not work for about 10%-30% of people with ADHD, and if the reactions were truly that different, then there would be no controversy about testing for ADHD. It'd be as simple as just examining the effects of a pill.

In the beginning, I felt euphoric from stimulants and I am ADHD as they come. On the rare occasion, I still might get hit with a glimpse of it. Though that is typically after I take a break from medication for some time.

Back when I was in college, I cannot tell you how many people I knew with legitimate ADHD that used to rail Adderall and Adderall XR pills (yes, the XR are just as easy to abuse).

Check out this subreddit if you care. Search for the term "ADHD" and you will see how the medication affects a portion of the ADHD population:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StopSpeeding/

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#393

Post by veunes »

replwoacause wrote: post #379

Reading all of these anecdotes about how difficult it is for some people to not only get an ADHD diagnosis but also a prescription for medication makes me feel somewhat guilty. This has not been my experience living in the US. I was diagnosed over 20 years ago and since then have explored the full range of medications with various different doctors in different states. I don’t recall any of them scrutinizing me or be…

Your experience honestly highlights just how wildly inconsistent ADHD care is, even within the same country

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#394

Post by sanderjd »

klipklop wrote: post #77

The irony about getting treatment for ADHD is that medical providers make it very hard to get the proper medication and treatment. People with ADHD are horrible at following through and handle rejection poorly. So the worse the ADHD is, the less likely somebody will be able to actually get treatment for it. A lot of people suffer because doctors fear losing their license like so many did during the pain pill debacle.…

Yeah, requiring a check in every month to keep getting a prescription always struck me as an ironic requirement when treating people with ADHD.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#395

Post by veunes »

schlauerfox wrote: post #41

The youtube channel of ADHD science researcher Russell Barkley gave me the push to get diagnosis in my last year of undergrad and It was like lightning to see all my symptoms laid out since childhood in context of the underlying brain science. He does a lot of debunking of bad research too. Great channel.

That kind of clarity can be life-altering

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#396

Post by hirvi74 »

Arcanum-XIII wrote: post #344
astrange wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true, it affects everyone the same way. But you could say the optimal dosage is different for different people. I think people just like saying this because they're afraid stimulants will get banned otherwise.

I’ve seen friends with stimulant and can say with full confidence they are not reacting to them the way I am. They’re « high », ideas everywhere and nowhere, acting like their overstimulated, full of energy… when I’m quieter, energy level normal, can think at one thing at a time without switching… and sleeping under the effect is not an issue. I a have great nap. So no. Maybe if I try a récréative drug will I have my…

> I’ve seen friends with stimulant and can say with full confidence they are not reacting to them the way I am.

That means very little. Do you think all people react the same way to all medications? If someone takes an SSRI and it doesn't work, then does that mean they do not have depression, anxiety, or whatever the medication is indicated for? Do opioids only work for people with chronic pain?

As someone with ADHD, it's extremely common for people with ADHD to think they are some sort of rare subspecies of humans where everything different in their life is due to ADHD. In all aspects of life, people with ADHD are far closer to normal than they might want to believe. It's why people even doubt the existence of ADHD at times. I've yet to see anyone seriously doubt the existence of Schizophrenia, for example.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#397

Post by hirvi74 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #369
astrange wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true, it affects everyone the same way. But you could say the optimal dosage is different for different people. I think people just like saying this because they're afraid stimulants will get banned otherwise.

That's wildly inaccurate. A brain is a complex system with emergent properties that result in us. The basic effect is an increase in Norepinephrine interactions but the effect that has on people with ADHD is obviously very different. It's like saying that engines with fuel and engines with no fuel respond the same way to adding fuel: it increases the length of time they will run. Stop adding fuel and the resulting sy…

> The basic effect is an increase in Norepinephrine interactions but the effect that has on people with ADHD is obviously very different.

I've heard it described as a difference in magnitude. If a person with ADHD has an arbitrary "focus" score of 5/10, and a normal person has a focus score of 8/10. If a stimulant brings them both up to a score of 9/10, then the effects may appear more noticeable in the ADHD person because a 4 point jump is typically far more apparent than a 1 point jump.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#398

Post by hirvi74 »

99_00 wrote: post #307
mandevil wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DEA put Adderall on its list of the most abused medication, and limits production of it and investigates doctors who prescribe too much of it. This is a response to the problems with the abuse of legal opiates a decade ago- the DEA now takes potential abuse of legal drugs much more seriously and adderall (an amphetamine- it's a cousin of meth) is at a high risk of abuse. Your psychiatrist is trying to deal with t…

All abuse is bad. Some abuses are worse than others. What abuse are they seeing with adderall? What I hear in casual conversations is that people are abusing it to learn things. Is that what the DEA was seeing too?

> What abuse are they seeing with adderall?

Probably accounts that were similar to these:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StopSpeeding/

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#399

Post by teamonkey »

tstrimple wrote: post #225
teamonkey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest, how are you with fighting games (Steeet Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc.) and Souls-like games where you have to predict and parry at the correct moment?

I never got into fighting games outside of Bushido Blade which I think translated quite well in my domination of Souls-like games. Domination is an exaggeration. I don't feel like I'm particularly good at those games, but I don't think they are nearly as difficult as the reputation conveys. It took me fewer than a dozen tries to kill Malenia in Elden Ring and most of the bosses I was able to kill in the first or seco…

That’s interesting, I’m more-or-less the same.

I ask because FPS gameplay contains a whole host of different skills, including the precision of your movements, the ability to accurately predict and track the enemy’s position on screen, as well as your reaction times, sequencing movements and so on. Potentially you could be exceptionally good at some of these and unusually bad at others and still emerge as a good FPS player.

Fighting games are a bit more pure, leaning more heavily on reaction times, timing and sequencing of moves.

Recent understanding of dyslexia is that it’s actually a kind of sequencing problem in the brain. I wonder if this is more descriptive of the issues faced by ADHDers?

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#400

Post by insane_dreamer »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #82
klipklop wrote: post #77

The irony about getting treatment for ADHD is that medical providers make it very hard to get the proper medication and treatment. People with ADHD are horrible at following through and handle rejection poorly. So the worse the ADHD is, the less likely somebody will be able to actually get treatment for it. A lot of people suffer because doctors fear losing their license like so many did during the pain pill debacle.…

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I've been taking medication for ADHD since the 3rd grade. Why in the good goddamn should I have to go in EVERY month for a refill for a medication I've been taking for over 20 years.

I'm pretty ignorant of how all this works, never having had to take medication, so I apologize in advance if this comes off the wrong way. But isn't the reticence of doctors a result of the over-prescription of opioids leading to the very serious opioid crisis?

Not sure what the correct solution is, but on the one hand we don't want doctors to overprescribe, but on the other hand we want doctors to liberally prescribe without re-checks to make it easier for those who need it to get their meds. That would seem to put providers in a bind.

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