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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#391

Post by occz »

globular-toast wrote: post #374
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

That's because in the UK people just don't walk, except in certain places. You wouldn't get this crane incident happening in London, for example. But in other places people just won't walk there. One way to reduce deaths is just get everyone into cars.

>One way to reduce deaths is just get everyone into cars.

A patently absurd claim that holds up to no scrutiny whatsoever. The whole nation of the U.S disproves it, for one.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#392

Post by anilakar »

dilyevsky wrote: post #211
max_ wrote: post #35

"More than half of Helsinki’s streets now have speed limits of 30 km/h." This is the only secret. People over speeding is what kills.

The real reason is Finnish absolutely draconian fines that scale up with income and really really strict enforcement. Make fines start with $500 and go to thousands and actually enforce them and not what SF is doing and we'll have the same but people over here don't like to hear it...

The fines are not draconian. Those insane sums that end up in headlines are always from super rich folks bitching about how they should be allowed to speed because they're such net contributors.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#393

Post by tincholio »

Wilder7977 wrote: post #367
tlogan wrote: post #124

Maybe Helsinki isn’t special: just fewer cars. And they apparently only 21% of daily trips used a private car. Helsinki has about 3x fewer vehicles per capita than the average U.S. city. So it’s not surprising it’s safer since fewer cars mean fewer chances of getting hit by one. Plus their cars are much smaller. In fact, there are probably plenty of U.S. towns and cities with similar number of cars that have zero tra…

Achieving a low amount of trips done by car is already something that doesn't happen magically, and is the result of policy decisions (e.g., invest in public transport). Then there are speed limits, road designs etc.

And the cost of parking... Parking your car in Hki is eye-watering

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#394

Post by bluescrn »

squidgyhead wrote: post #287
throwaway9832 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Speed enforcement has been extensively studied, and there are a lot of publicly available articles on the subject. The results are basically universally in favour of speed enforcement reducing motor vehicle collisions, reducing injury and cost.

Zero MPH = zero traffic = zero road deaths.

But without transport significantly more people will die from other things, due to reduced access to healthcare, employment, food, etc.

In a modern society, road transport is a critical part of our life support system. Those pushing for a what they see as a car-free utopia tend to ignore this.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#395

Post by Tomis02 »

chasd00 wrote: post #288
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

2hrs ago I was on switchbacks coming up into the mountains outside of San Jose Costa Rica. I come around one and bam there’s a 7-9 year old girl walking up the road in the middle of the lane. How the mountain roads in Costa Rica don’t run red with blood I don’t know.

You could share the road with others, you know? You weren't born behind the wheel.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#396

Post by anilakar »

booleandilemma wrote: post #310
mzmzmzm wrote: post #80

At the same time NYC and Toronto, we are removing protected bike lanes. In North America the acceptable amount of lives per year to sacrifice for a little convenience for drivers is above zero, and apparently rising.

Bike lanes are kinda scary in nyc though, because bikers usually refuse to stop for red lights, creating a hazard for pedestrians. I once saw a biker yell at a pedestrian to get out of the way, even though she was the one who was going through a red light. More than once I've seen a biker almost plow into someone trying to cross the street.

When I see someone violating cycling traffic code, nine times out of ten it's an electric skateboard, rental city bike or a food delivery guy on an electric moped (legally bicycles when limited to 25 km/h).

And those spandex-wearing road cyclists and commuters that motorists like to bitch about so much? The best law-abiding folks I've seen.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#397

Post by exe34 »

bluescrn wrote: post #394
squidgyhead wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed enforcement has been extensively studied, and there are a lot of publicly available articles on the subject. The results are basically universally in favour of speed enforcement reducing motor vehicle collisions, reducing injury and cost.

Zero MPH = zero traffic = zero road deaths. But without transport significantly more people will die from other things, due to reduced access to healthcare, employment, food, etc. In a modern society, road transport is a critical part of our life support system. Those pushing for a what they see as a car-free utopia tend to ignore this.

It's almost as if a balance could be achieved, both by reducing the number of cars and increasing the number of trains/busses.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#398

Post by throw-qqqqq »

jcgl wrote: post #355
matsemann wrote: post #177

What kills in my city is mostly trucks. Yes, we need them to get goods to stores. But we don't need the bigass trucks with zero vision to haul goods inside a city. I look forward to Direct Vision Standard being mandatory. Trucks in cities should be built more like city buses. The hut low and with windows all around.

It seems like European trucks with their cab-over-engine design generally have far better visibility than their American counterparts. Not to mention the fact that they’re often smaller and more maneuverable. Where I live in Europe, I’m always impressed to see how well these trucks are able to function in mixed-use areas. Never would have seen this where I grew up in the US.

AFAIK the European design is made to minimize the length of the truck.

There is an EU limit on the total length of the truck and trailer in Europe (default 18.75m, EMS 25.25 etc.).

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#399

Post by rwyinuse »

dilyevsky wrote: post #211
max_ wrote: post #35

"More than half of Helsinki’s streets now have speed limits of 30 km/h." This is the only secret. People over speeding is what kills.

The real reason is Finnish absolutely draconian fines that scale up with income and really really strict enforcement. Make fines start with $500 and go to thousands and actually enforce them and not what SF is doing and we'll have the same but people over here don't like to hear it...

I'm not sure about the enforcement part. In Finland we have one of the lowest amounts of policemen per capita, traffic police seriously lacks resources. Moderate speeding is pretty common due to that, despite the fines. Maybe it's better in Helsinki than other cities or the countryside, I don't know.

I regularly drive about 300km trips without seeing a single police car, only one static traffic camera on the way.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#400

Post by twixfel »

Saline9515 wrote: post #222
Muromec wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take better from both worlds -- 1 hour bike commute and save on healthcare costs too.

Very entitled comment. The food worker who has to stand up for the whole day to make your matcha frappuccino could enjoy some rest on the way home.

Driving a car in the isn’t restful in the slightest.
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