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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

391–400 of 665 posts

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#391
post #55

This is probably a controversial opinion but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system. I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores. So I find it distasteful that other companies are seeking to control Apple's product design through the legal system. They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more…

> This is probably a controversial opinion

Not very. Plenty of people, including on HN, agree with you.

> but I actually use my iPhone because it's locked down with a curated app marketplace and secure payment system.

Except it’s not. That argument would be much stronger if the App Store weren’t full of scammy predatory apps which regularly top the top grossing charts.

> I don't want alternative payment methods or app stores.

And I don’t want everything to be a subscription, yet here we are. Just like I have to avoid the majority of apps today, you’ll avoid other App Stores if that is what you want.

You’re at a significant advantage because ignoring other stores is much easier, and opening up the iPhone to third-party stores has an effect on the policies of the main App Store. This is plainly demonstrated by the acceptance of the emulator from the creator of an alternative store. So even by not using those third-party ones, you’re benefiting.

> They're essentially trying to make it impossible to purchase a product I want, which is more monopolistic than the current status quo.

That doesn’t make sense. There’s no monopoly on a product which doesn’t exist.

> iPhones do not have any sort of monopoly on phones.

You don’t have to be a monopoly to be harmful to consumers. Companies have realised that long ago and it’s time consumers do too.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#392
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, does Settings > Apps > Gmail (or whichever other app) > Default Mail App really qualify as “a complex labyrinth”? Sure, it’d be a good thing to add a “Default Apps” section under Settings > General or something, but calling the current route complex almost sounds like an insult to users. EDIT: Actually, there already is a “Default Apps” section right at the top of the page of Settings > Apps. Yeah, if that’s…

I didn't even know you could change the default mail app on iOS and I’ve used it for the better part of a decade now, as a Proton user too. I’ve endured the frustration because I thought it was fixed. Either being allowed to change it is relatively new, region locked, or yeah it’s a labyrinth.

> Either being allowed to change it is relatively new, region locked, or yeah it’s a labyrinth.

It's about 5 years old by now. Not having looked for something in a couple of years and being bummed out by that doesn't make Apple the bad guy.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#393
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory Don't you think this is _maybe_ an overstatement? I was annoyed about this for years but reading your take is borderline satirical.

No, I don't think it's an understatement at all.... In the difficulty of non-iMessage compatibility, I have had people close to me say "Why don't you just get an iPhone?" with an incredulous tone. Perhaps tech companies have had more evil things happen on their platforms, that for whatever reason they were slow to react to. But "Why don't you just get an iPhone" was a precisely and meticulously engineered line, pure…

> No, I don't think it's an understatement at all....

It's interesting how this seems like an incredibly American problem. In Europe everyone either uses WhatsApp or Signal and iMessage is hardly ever used.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#394

I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory as Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Few things are more enraging than people being left out of chats with friends and family because they didn't bend over for Apple. Even…

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other options out there. This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle. And it's specifically about Apple's monopoly power over those businesses. No government is going to accept that some company, Apple, gets that kind of control.

so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then...

Yes, you absolutely should be able to, and printer companies should not be allowed to try and stop it.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#396
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that the choice to purchase devices that offer the freedom you want is available, if not the primary option. I don't wish to take that away from you. However you are advocating for the only choice for a locked down device be legislated out of existence. There is a fundamental difference here!

You're right. I wish to take this away from you. To me this is completely fine, morally, philosophically and legally, and a lot of people seem to agree with me.

> a lot of people seem to agree with me

Apple have over a billion iPhones out there I believe, and your phrasing of "it's all of us vs just you" is really inappropriate - both from an argumentation perspective and probably a fact perspective too.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#397
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any big tech company has ever done anything as evil and predatory Don't you think this is _maybe_ an overstatement? I was annoyed about this for years but reading your take is borderline satirical.

No, I don't think it's an understatement at all.... In the difficulty of non-iMessage compatibility, I have had people close to me say "Why don't you just get an iPhone?" with an incredulous tone. Perhaps tech companies have had more evil things happen on their platforms, that for whatever reason they were slow to react to. But "Why don't you just get an iPhone" was a precisely and meticulously engineered line, pure…

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#398
post #270

> Companies that monetize user data in exchange for “free” services that abuse your privacy aren’t affected by this [the app store tax], as they don’t process payments through the App Store. However, privacy-first companies that monetize through subscriptions are disproportionately hit by this fee, putting a major barrier toward the adoption of privacy-first business models. Huh. I’ve never seen it framed this way an…

It's really the most interesting thing I read in this screed, the rest of which seemed to be clueless BS like, "changes to App Store policies that will improve the state of the internet." No. Unlike Google, Meta, and Amazon, Apple is not a gatekeeper to the Internet. They are the gatekeeper to one thing: their own app store. It's tiresome to hear the same anti-"big-tech" hysteria aimed at Apple. They aren't a monopol…

Try shipping a web browser not based on Apple’s browser functionality on iOS. See how free of gatekeeping the internet is.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#399
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple walling off iMessage, giving the impression that Apple phones were high technology, and interacting with peasant androids is what made group chats fragment and pictures and videos look like trash. Which lawsuit PDF related specifically to iMessage interacting with Android was mentioned in this comment? I see a comment about RCS. Now, maybe you are right, maybe I narrowly interpreted RCS in iMessage to mean ch…

Focusing on the "the most" part is extremely petty. This whole thread is the complete opposite of "thoughtful and substantive" and the "Converse curiously" from HN guidelines and I regret participating on it.

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#400

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

Now imagine that instead of an iPad, you've just bought a new house with fantastic materials and an integrated software system. Should the company that built it have the right to control how and who interacts with your house?
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