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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#391

Post by jijijijij »

f1shy wrote: post #133
criddell wrote: post #14

Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? I get that Framework focuses on making repairable machines, but does that prevent them from making a fanless, hi dpi, good performing, long battery life machine? I wouldn’t expect parity with an M4 machine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think they should be competitive with the much older M1. I…

Exactly that is what I think, and I do think it is just not possible. I’m searching for a new laptop, I want unix, so either linux or macos. I was looking at framework, system76, tuxedo and slimbooks, and mac air. I want an ANSI keyboard, which seems an oddity in Europe (there is English iso, which viscerally hate) If you want thunderbolt ports, and some good specs, mac air is cheaper. And I’ve heard with arm process…

The MacBook Air is undoubtedly good hardware, even good value, but from experience I personally just hate the Apple software ecosystem/wardship so much, it’s a dealbreaker. The pretentious presentation while neglecting practical details, the inflexibility you will sooner or later fight… it’s a special kind of hell. You strictly don’t have options on their devices. Asahi is a nice effort, but still too limited. The happy Apple users I know, have adapted their expectations, bought fully in. I am honestly never sure, if they are merely fantasizing about productivity, or actually (just) work. For me, after the honeymoon phase, it always ends in deep frustration. IMO with Apple you have to embrace the "yes, daddy“ mentality, be gaslit into overstating the good, while disowning the bad, or you will end up angry.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#392

Post by e12e »

MangoToupe wrote: post #386
e12e wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, when did this happen? I thought external display was still not supported on MacBook air m1s? Ed: according to https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/m1/#soc... MacBook air still have no external display support?

I imagine this is actually a usb-c issue rather than straight-up no display support

So, you are not running Linux on a MacBook air m1, I take it - when you say it works fine for you?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#393

Post by benrutter »

paldepind2 wrote: post #182
benrutter wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is my experience with a Fairphone 4. It seemed pricey initially, but I have saved sooo much by being able to carry out simple repairs.

How often do you break your phone that you've save sooo much? Mine is at least 2 years older (I got it 2 years before the Fairphone 4 was released) and I've spend 0$ dollars repairing it.

Embarrasingly often! Things I've done specifically:

- Getting cement in the charger port

- Dropping the phone on its screen breaking it

With some phones both of those could be full replacements.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#394

Post by solardev »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #384
mmcnl wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ofcourse, but that's the whole point right? At similar power levels, Apple M-series is a lot faster. The only way for AMD and Intel to compete on performance is by providing more power, but this obviously has a negative effect on efficiency. So with AMD/Intel you have to choose: efficient and slow or inefficient and fast. With Apple you can actually have it both ways.

> Ofcourse, but that's the whole point right? At similar power levels, Apple M-series is a lot faster. The only way for AMD and Intel to compete on performance is by providing more power They're saying the exact opposite of that. Their claim is that all the extra power is only juicing performance a little bit, so at similar power levels the performance is not all that far apart.

OK, so I'm still curious about the underlying efficiency. Is there a better test of single core efficiency at the same TDP? Does Apple Silicon provide any noticeable improvement over other x86 or Arm chips in that scenario, or is it really just a straightforward function of process and node size?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#395

Post by simonh »

righthand wrote: post #299
jekwoooooe wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they could but they have an edge like framework has an edge. If you value the idea that you can theoretically repair your laptop one day (which is an assumption that it will break) more than everyday usability and features… then that’s your choice. Outside of breaking a screen I’ve never one had a laptop just “break”. And for anything else well… there’s AppleCare.

Not everyone using a computer can afford Apple products and Apple service repair services. Good for you, but maybe start with your privilege as a difference.

Just a data point, but I've had three devices repaired by Apple. One was in warranty (just), the other two times they weren't but Apple did the repair for free anyway. You certainly can't rely on them doing the latter, it's at their discretion, but they often do anyway.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#396

Post by Dylan16807 »

solardev wrote: post #394
Dylan16807 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ofcourse, but that's the whole point right? At similar power levels, Apple M-series is a lot faster. The only way for AMD and Intel to compete on performance is by providing more power They're saying the exact opposite of that. Their claim is that all the extra power is only juicing performance a little bit, so at similar power levels the performance is not all that far apart.

OK, so I'm still curious about the underlying efficiency. Is there a better test of single core efficiency at the same TDP? Does Apple Silicon provide any noticeable improvement over other x86 or Arm chips in that scenario, or is it really just a straightforward function of process and node size?

Someone needs to run the same single core benchmarks on Intel and AMD while forcing those CPUs to only use 5 watts. In a few minutes of searching I was not able to find anyone doing power-limited single core benchmarks.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#397

Post by m463 »

nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

this same lack of critical thinking is why you can't search for decently-rated dumb tvs, because they lose points for not being smart.

sigh.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#398

Post by justinrubek »

rfwhyte wrote: post #159

I'd be a lot more into Framework if they had come out with a single other GPU option than the Radeon 7700S that's been the only GPU option available since the brands launch. The 7800M and 7900M have both been out over a year or more, and Framework has made zero mention of when or even if those models would ever be available as upgrades for Framework devices. I don't even really play games, but for my video editing wo…

Why would you buy a 12 inch laptop for video editing?
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