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Working on databases from prison

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Re: Working on databases from prison

#391

Post by _DeadFred_ »

mlissner wrote: post #87

Maine's remote work program is an incredibly promising development to prevent recidivism. The amazing thing about it is that it gives real jobs to prisoners that they can seamlessly continue after they get out of prison. Normally when you get out, it's impossible to get a job, and the clock is ticking. This leads to desperation, which leads to bad behavior. There is a real risk of exploitation, but if it's properly m…

How do they make sure the prison isn't just employing people already experienced in the field to make the prison money? How do they ensure people are treated fairly (normally prisoners aren't really even allowed sick days, they can't chose not to work overtime if required, etc)? Do they audit to ensure number of sick hours are comparable to non-prison work? Do they ensure prison guards bonus' aren't based on inmate performance (UNICOR does all of the above bad practices resulting in sick people being forced to work overtime in order to get the guards their bonus)?

UNICOR/the Federal system 'strongly encourages' people with CAD experience, etc do the McDonalds remodel contracts, the World Trade Center work, etc. These are people that worked in the industry prior to prison and that are not traditionally been hired back after release, so it's simply being used to make UNICOR money on big contracts based on incarcerated individuals pre-existing training being exploited. In addition having structural CAD work done by people with zero say in their job, their deliverables/quality, their hours, etc seems like a bad idea. I don't know why outside engineers are using this work. The UNICOR McDonalds remodels are probably fine (though you can tell by the current feel of McDonalds that the remodels were literally done by prison inmates), but the UNICOR World Trade Center stuff seems super sketchy.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#392

Post by djoldman »

I fear that the distinctly American emphasis on personal independence and deprioritization of root causes has led to our persistent and failed war on drugs.

Unfortunately, many of the laws written and policies enacted presume an idealistic fantasy where humans are much more rationally acting, thoughtful, and informed than they really are.

The clearest example of this is raising statutory penalties from "many years" to "many many years" in prison. What is this supposed to achieve? Do people think that folks out there:

1. know the laws well enough to know how many years they'll get for the crime they're about to commit?

2. (and if knowledgable about penalty changes) think, "oh well I would have done X and risked many years in prison but now that it's many many years, I won't" ?

If huge prison sentences and massive resources spent on crime detection+ enforcement were the answer, America wouldn't have an illegal drug problem.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#393

Post by conductr »

franga2000 wrote: post #317
conductr wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The cut should support the program itself and then further offset taxpayer expenses related to housing, feeding, and caring for the prisoner. I could even see a case for taking it as a way of ensuring it was saved and returned at release.

Fuck no! Lowering the cost of keeping people in prison would make it even easier for the government to lock people up for smaller crimes and with bigger sentences. It's even worse with the privatised prison system that the US has. They already know the "market price" (what the government is willing to spend) so adding "free money" into the equation just makes it easier for them to raise prices and end up pocketing ev…

Fix the problem then, don't perpetuate it. If you think the problem is corrupt and profiteering prisons that will turn to this type of shenanigans, there's a bigger problem to fix.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#394

Post by conductr »

Aurornis wrote: post #305
conductr wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many deadly chemicals are in an average home? Every time I fill up my car with gas, I buy enough to commit dozens of cases of arson. Intent matters and there's no reason to believe he intended to harm anyone. I believe it's a crime and should be a felony but this sentence is a bit extreme in terms of punishment fitting the crime.

> Every time I fill up my car with gas, I buy enough to commit dozens of cases of arson. Did you read the link? They also found scales, baggies, and Carfentanil (a more potent version of fentanyl). Filling your car up with gas doesn't compare. A better analogy would be if you tried to fill up a 10,000 gallon tank of gasoline that you couldn't possibly use yourself, all while having a truck full of matches and explosi…

No evidence this guy was trying to start a massive explosion with a single target. Most evidence is that he was trying to start a lot of tiny fires just like I could with the 20 gallons of gas that's in my tank. Except, not even that because he was just reselling the fuel and the consumer gets to decide how big of a fire they want to create.

Intent to distribute is a huge scam and calculates out to a unjustly long sentence for a lot of minor offenders. I'm not arguing it shouldn't be illegal or even tack on some extra time above just normal possession, but 15-30 years is absurd for what this guy did in my opinion.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#396

Post by armchairhacker »

qualeed wrote: post #46
abxyz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...in America he's innocent until proven guilty... ...in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments.

> Innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments. That's not a good thing. Edit: I cannot really believe that this, of all comments, is controversial. Living life treating everyone as guilty until they prove themselves innocent is... just shitty, let alone exhausting. Do people forget about how many times reddit and other ruined innocent people's lives? Sometimes HN amazes me with new technology, in…

On one hand, I agree that internet comments tend to judge people unfairly, and “treating people as guilty first” probably leads to an unhealthy society (considered “unhealthy” by its own members).

On the other hand, GP is objectively right ("innocent until proven guilty doesn't extend to internet comments"). I also think that it’s better for random people to be able to post their terrible judgements than any feasible alternative, because such an alternative probably leads to good judgements also censored. We can mitigate (not eliminate) bad judgements, e.g. by educating people better and shaming those who shame others more; and we can minimize mob justice’s effect on critical government functions like welfare and prison sentencing, e.g. by running them on mostly objective procedures and with staff who aren’t influenced by mob opinion.

Targeted harassment and doxxing (and swatting, getting people fired/divorced/ruined when they don’t deserve to be, etc.) is different (and to be clear, IMO very bad). People posting opinions in a way that the target can block (which they can usually do with blocklists and word filters) is fine. The main point I’m trying to make is: if opinions in random internet comments lead to targeted harassment and real-world consequences even when the opinions are “bad” (e.g. bigoted, hypocritical), it's less effective to try and prevent the internet comments' existence, than to reduce the factors causing them to influence the real world and create factors preventing influence.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#397

Post by lazyasciiart »

badc0ffee wrote: post #384
refulgentis wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it somewhat amusing that I woke up to this post at ~9 AM, and was surprised at the crowding-out of discussion about the article, by people sort of half-groping at a straw or two they picked up, trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality?...based off the straw they're holding. It is now 4 PM, about to clock out for the day because I gotta wait for CI run thats >30m. I come back here and it's s…

> trying to make a definitive case on his...goodness? morality? Speaking for myself, I'm actually just discussing the idea that a non-violent crime like drug dealing necessarily deserves a light sentence in general. > Sounds like a you thing It is a me thing. That's why I said "brings to mind". I'm a product of my time. I remember when weed and psychedelics meant demonization and heavy sentences, and it was absurd be…

They are largely the same though. Small-time dealing of any drug is often just being the guy in your circle of users that does the group buying, maybe it was just your turn. Or your dealer says you can pay for your purchase by driving this package across town. Now you've been caught with enough pills to kill 30 people and the intent to distribute - is that an action that hits your threshold for heavy sentences and bad people?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#398

Post by jamesblonde »

keybored wrote: post #370
jamesblonde wrote: post #244

The scary thing is that Maine is considered progressive for prison. My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishman-jailed-for-10-years...

> My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer. Is the story supposed to be more sympathetic because he was (brilliant)?

Putting brilliant in parentheses indicates that it is parenthetical. That means it’s an aside, an afterthought, or additional information that isn’t essential to the main point of the sentence.

What is your point?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#399

Post by rafaelmn »

dfxm12 wrote: post #381
tux3 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sacklers are comfortably above the law and that's a bad thing, but that doesn't make small time carfentanyl operations any less bad Evil is a threshold, it's not a competition with limited spots Sometimes big crime families or notorious serial killers get away with it, but it doesn't lower the threshold for anyone else It doesn't make it any better that someone else is doing even worse. You don't get to do a litt…

Focus on the bad thing, not piling on the guy who is serving his sentence (while also making a new life for himself).

I wouldn't say he's piling on him, just replying to the guy aboowho made it sound like this guy is in jail for smoking weed.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#400

Post by lazyasciiart »

snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #307
lukan wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also food and accomodation ..

1) How is this different from any other prisoner 2) They wouldn't have to if they didn't insist on locking him up

It isn't different from any other prisoner. In many states you leave prison owing them back rent. Maine at least charges as a percentage of the prisoners income, rather than having them build debt.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-...

Maine: https://www.corrections1.com/finance-and-budgets/maine-lawma... "the state can deduct up to 20% of their income — 10% for room and board, which is sent to the state’s general fund, not the Department of Corrections , and up to 10% to cover transportation provided by the department. Since 2020, the state fund has collected a total of $2.4 million.

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