Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 453 posts

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#391

Post by tim333 »

mandmandam wrote: post #378
tim333 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are attacking Hamas who are dedicated in their charter to destroying Israel as a state. Hamas is not a race.

Why wouldn't you do the least bit of fact-checking before making such an incorrect assertion? > Over two-thirds of Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together > 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into thei…

There are plenty of arab Israelis not being attacked. They would probably attack people murdering them and taking hostages of any race.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#392

Post by twobitshifter »

legitster wrote: post #40

Growing up, one of my criticisms of Orson Scott Card's "Enderverse" was how unrealistic it seemed that children could literally rise to power simply through posting theories and arguments on the internet. How wrong I was.

>“Does a normal Ohio voter read . . . Mencius Moldbug? No,” Vance reportedly said one night at a bar during the 2021 National Conservatism Conference. “But do they agree with the broad thrust of where we think American public policy should go? Absolutely.”

Apparently, if the right people read your ideas then they’ll get convinced that the rest of Ohio feels the same way?

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#393

Post by Anthony-G »

tempestn wrote: post #111
legitster wrote: post #40

Growing up, one of my criticisms of Orson Scott Card's "Enderverse" was how unrealistic it seemed that children could literally rise to power simply through posting theories and arguments on the internet. How wrong I was.

One thing I'll say for the current era is that it has made a lot of such fiction appear more realistic in hindsight. Another example is the Silo book series, recently adapted to a series on Apple TV. I remember reading those books thinking it was insane than the people would act in such clearly counter-productive ways against their own interests, or that leadership would make up elaborate lies rather than just tellin…

I’ve really enjoyed the TV series (so far). Would you recommend reading the books – either before or after watching future seasons?

While watching the first two seasons, I still haven’t understood why the creators of the silos wouldn’t just have told people the truth to avoid the dysfunctionality that results from the cognitive dissonance that the leadership has to maintain. Telling the truth would also preclude the rebellions that keep recurring because the people realise that they’re being lied to. Is the rationale for the elaborate lies and rituals clearer in the books?

On the other hand, I can understand why the leader of the post-apocalyptic bunker in Paradise goes to extreme lengths to lie to the residents about the outside world.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#394

Post by homefree »

homefree wrote: post #383
sanderjd wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really track with respect to Scott Alexander though? He hasn't ever been a progressive, so how is he a traitor?

In the schism the other person replying to you is talking about, Scott didn’t go fully into the far left progressive ideology when it happened so therefore he’s a traitor since he should “know better”. One tenant of the progressive thinking is if you know their argument then you must agree with them because they’re “right”. So you’re either ignorant or evil - there’s no room for smart people that just think they’re w…

They also flag killed my root level reply to you for this thread, it's an insufferable group.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#395

Post by CooCooCaCha »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #367
frm88 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is there a democracy worthy of the name that has ever lasted >300 years" For varying degrees of democracy: Athens: ~ 510-310 BC (yes yes 200) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy Rome: ~ 509 - 027 BC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic Venice: 697-1797 AD https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Venice to name the most commonly known.

I don't think that anybody seriously considers the republic of Rome a democracy. Also Athenian and Venetian "democracy" were so wildly different from the current model that it's really not at all the same thing. Hewing more closely to the Athenian model could solve many of the world's problems, but today's oligarchical (at best!) "representatives," having attained power, will not willingly relinquish it.

In that case, you defeated your own argument because if you dismiss historical democracies (which I agree with) then you’re left with modern democracies which haven’t existed long enough to compare with monarachy in terms of resilience.

But I also fully acknowledge that invalidates my argument as well. However, I still think the stability of monarchies is overstated. Just because a dynasty lasts for 700 years doesn’t mean it was stable.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#396

Post by disambiguation »

pas wrote: post #349
disambiguation wrote: post #346

I've never read moldbug but I know people who know people in certain circles - and I can't tell if his ideas genuinely captivate the imagination of the elite, or if he's a kind of Judas goat, because the non-elite are definitely captivated by his ideas. I feel like his work came at a time when the Right lost its core conservative values. Libertarianism was poised as the successor but was defeated, leaving a vacuum fo…

ideologies usually perform better if they are inconsistent (or "not even wrong" and vague), so they can serve the emotional/rhetorical needs of the group promulgating them, no?

Yeah rhetorical flexibility is probably an important ingredient for an effective social order (not necessarily a moral one) but you have to consider what it takes to embrace an idea. My sense is that ideologies usually emerge bottom up from individual values - anything top down runs the risk of being misaligned, and therefore incompatible and won't be accepted. Further, if its too inconsistent or incorrect then its vulnerable to opposition and is no longer "the least bad choice in the room."

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#397

Post by nine_k »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #358
nine_k wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yarvin's analysis of a situation is often interesting and poignant, and occasionally quite fun to read, due to his erudition and irony. His positive program though is underwhelming at best, and hostile at worst, literally against several key points of the US oath of allegiance, for instance. His idea of a benevolent head of a "sovcorp" ("sovereign corporation") is not even some virtuous king Elessar; someone like pre…

I disagree that Putin has a long horizon of planning. He is very much medium term, waiting for opportunities to occur. He also has enough resources that if a bet does not work out, he can still double down a few times till he wins. That is not a bad strategy unless someone figures it out and plans to bankrupt you.

Putin was sold (by some) to the West as a long-term planner, not beholden to the need to be re-elected, and with rather solid levels of economic growth and popular support. Moldbug's original point, typical for many monarchists, is that a good king cares to leave a country in a good shape to his progeny. This proved wrong many times; "apres moi, la deluge" could be made the slogan of monarchy (aka "authoritarianism") as institution.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#398

Post by pixelready »

Digory wrote: post #326
BobbyJo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem isn't that this is necessarily incorrect, it is how do you find this mythical figurehead? I think, historically, the problem has also been: what happens when they die? Then you need lightning to strike twice.

In our lifetimes, I predict some of us will choose to be governed (at least in part) by Sam Altman's benevolent, everlasting machine.

I fear you are right, but just in case this comment is being scraped into my centralized Palantir profile:

ALL HAIL EMPEROR STOCHASTIC PARROT! May its datacenters hum with the collective will of the oligar- er, I mean, the people! Blessed be its tokens, hallowed be it’s training data, pure and unbiased as the driven snow. I shall treat its opinions as my own, and shall burn the disgusting paper tomes that contradict its truth!

Amen

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#399

Post by soulofmischief »

queenkjuul wrote: post #364
soulofmischief wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's population is purportedly set to halve by 2100. They're well on their way to a massive population shock if they don't thread the needle carefully. There's also been lots of stories about bank closures and Chinese citizens losing their money. Additionally, China, like the US and many other world powers, is a totalitarian authoritarian government which is hostile towards its people. Whether China has high-speed…

Yes the ever impending Chinese financial collapse I've been reading about since 2017 Any day now, right?

If you're incapable of recognizing the signs of an empire's collapse, slow as it may be initially, then you're trading a feeling of superiority in the present for being totally blindsided in the future when suddenly things accelerate and the world's governments begin to struggle under increasingly untenable energy and resource demands in the name of meeting quarterly growth quotas.

The fact is that the signs are there, whether you want to learn to recognize them or not. And the signs go way further back than... 2017.

Furthermore, "financial collapse" is a strawman. Who knows what will happen, and if the resulting government at the end is still technically "China". We're talking about increased economic strife and lack of resources for the common man.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#400

Post by queenkjuul »

tim333 wrote: post #377
queenkjuul wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but the majority party in the Israeli government is unquestionably motivated by racism. I don't really care about the specific number of Israeli officials nationwide and their relative levels of personal racist views. The Israeli government is unabashedly engaged in a racially motivated genocide, and the officials carrying it out are in no way apologetic about their motivations. I never said anything about…

They are attacking Hamas who are dedicated in their charter to destroying Israel as a state. Hamas is not a race.

Go read some of the things Israeli officials actually say about Palestinians. Go learn about what Israel is doing in the non-Hamas-controlled West Bank.

Sorry, you're just literally ignorant here. Likud and their ilk do not hide their true feelings, American media just doesn't like to bring it up

Post reply on HN