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You wouldn't steal a font

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Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#391

Post by homebrewer »

bdelmas wrote: post #331
gkoberger wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying a Michelin chef can complain about a 50x increase in the cost of truffles without negating the fact that a lot of people happily survive on ramen.

A high price in a font won't sink a business as a high price in truffle would for a Michelin chef... The price of a font for a business is extremely negligible... Or again you shouldn't buy it if your business is too small. And if it's that small you should be able to justify the value added by buying that font as truffle does for the chef. So we are back at what OP said.

Maybe it won't sink the business, but prices were bad enough for IBM to cough up the money to grow their own truffles (of IBM Plex variety).

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#393

Post by dredmorbius »

Suppafly wrote: post #371
dredmorbius wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All law is a fiction, by that argument.

>All law is a fiction, by that argument. sure but some can claim more of a moral basis than others.

Beware claims to moral rights / superiority. They're often a thought-stopping wedge to badness.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43782745>

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#394

Post by butlike »

tptacek wrote: post #92
phony-account wrote: post #24

Is this the wrong time to rant about font licensing though? I’ve always bought and paid for fonts, but as I’ve gradually transitioned to mobile app development, I one day realized that all the fonts I bought for print are now worthless to me. These crazy outdated licenses that let you print as many magazines or books you want forever, for a one-time price. But if your hobby is making apps, then suddenly the same font…

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

In my experience part of the pain is having some decision-maker or stake-holder getting married to a design during the mockup phase. A lot of the mockup generators will use fonts you'll have to license later for free in the mockup.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#395

Post by butlike »

tptacek wrote: post #158
gkoberger wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying a Michelin chef can complain about a 50x increase in the cost of truffles without negating the fact that a lot of people happily survive on ramen.

No, those things aren't comparable. Truffles have a functional role in a dish. A typeface does not have a meaningful functional role in a document, compared to the high-quality freely-available alternatives. This is like complaining about some kind of specially-carved or dyed truffle.

The truffle, and the font, add _essence_

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#396

Post by thordenmark »

phony-account wrote: post #24

Is this the wrong time to rant about font licensing though? I’ve always bought and paid for fonts, but as I’ve gradually transitioned to mobile app development, I one day realized that all the fonts I bought for print are now worthless to me. These crazy outdated licenses that let you print as many magazines or books you want forever, for a one-time price. But if your hobby is making apps, then suddenly the same font…

I really good font is a fine work of craftsmanship that is time consuming to make. The type designer deserves compensation for their work.

There are also plenty of license free, and B-tier fonts available if you are on a tight budget.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#397

Post by ummonk »

It’s clearly not the same font (you can see visible differences between the letters), and therefore not pirated. The appearance of a typeface can’t be copyrighted in the US - only the digital instructions used to render them (e.g. if someone visually inspects a font and clones it that is perfectly alright, as long as they don’t directly copy from and adapt the underlying font file).

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#398

Post by ummonk »

tptacek wrote: post #376
readbeard wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that Monotype has a bit of a monopoly in the upper segment of the market though right? I know they're not the only players, but it feels like they've vacuumed up enough small, successful foundries that they now control enough of the market that they can get away with the kind of aggressive behavior that wouldn't be tenable in a healthier, more competitive marketplace. From Wikipedia [0] > Via a…

Serious question: who cares? There is no scarcity of high quality fonts (there are more of them available to ordinary people today than at any point in history). So they control Hoefler. If that's a problem for you, don't use Hoefler faces.

Independent foundries want to sell typefaces with reasonable royalty shares. Customers want trusted marketplaces (i.e. ones where scammers aren't reselling fonts they've pirated) where they can purchase high quality fonts with reasonable licensing for reasonable prices. Both customers and foundries are poorly served by Monotype monopolizing the big font marketplaces.

The Monotype monopoly is a legitimate problem that people have legitimate complaints about.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#399

Post by ummonk »

mark-r wrote: post #335
biercarsten wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Many people can hardly tell the difference between Arial and Helvetica. There used to be a website where you could test how good you are at telling them apart. You won't notice many small differences between certain fonts. But that doesn't mean they're unnecessary. As you said, they make a difference when taken together. For screens, there are a number of adjustments and techniques that improve screen readab…

USED to be a website? Aww, I did pretty well there - going to miss it.

No idea which one it was but I found this one and got a perfect score. The difference is pretty obvious... https://www.ironicsans.com/helvarialquiz/index.php

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#400

Post by tptacek »

ummonk wrote: post #398
tptacek wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: who cares? There is no scarcity of high quality fonts (there are more of them available to ordinary people today than at any point in history). So they control Hoefler. If that's a problem for you, don't use Hoefler faces.

Independent foundries want to sell typefaces with reasonable royalty shares. Customers want trusted marketplaces (i.e. ones where scammers aren't reselling fonts they've pirated) where they can purchase high quality fonts with reasonable licensing for reasonable prices. Both customers and foundries are poorly served by Monotype monopolizing the big font marketplaces. The Monotype monopoly is a legitimate problem that…

You're saying, exclusively, that Monotype is app-storing the market for fonts by buying up the common tooling designers use to transact in fonts, right? You don't care what Monotype charges for its own fonts?

(That seems like a perfectly reasonable complaint).

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