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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#391

Post by genewitch »

attila-lendvai wrote: post #380
chucky_z wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main study I can find referenced to this was based in China where levels of flouride in water appear to be much higher than in the US. Even the study itself calls out 'low-flouride' vs 'high-flouride.' Not 'no flouride.' Utah is going to have a dental crisis in a few years, as there already too few dentists.

reality check: europe never had fluoride in the water. still looking for the dental crisis.

Tea has fluoride in it. Not saying that's the only reason, but perhaps one.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#392

Post by theteapot »

estebank wrote: post #390
artvandelai wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding fluoride to water was revolutionary in the 1940s, but its benefits have significantly declined since fluoride toothpaste became common in the 1970s. While fluoridation made sense when products containing fluoride weren't widely available, it is much less effective and necessary now. Sure, some countries and communities may still see benefits from it, but widespread fluoridation doesn't seem necessary in many p…

There's a huge difference between "no longer as necessary" and "let's ban it".

There is difference between banning and just deciding putting fluoride in public drinking water too. Who are they banning? Themselves?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#393

Post by [deleted] »

estebank wrote: post #390
artvandelai wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding fluoride to water was revolutionary in the 1940s, but its benefits have significantly declined since fluoride toothpaste became common in the 1970s. While fluoridation made sense when products containing fluoride weren't widely available, it is much less effective and necessary now. Sure, some countries and communities may still see benefits from it, but widespread fluoridation doesn't seem necessary in many p…

There's a huge difference between "no longer as necessary" and "let's ban it".

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#394

Post by kubb »

knowknow wrote: post #351

I feel like we are so privileged in the US that there’s little to no personal consequences for being so wrong about a topic. Eventually there’s needs to be a correction, whether it’s because we regain our senses or we stray so far that the majority of people start to be majorly affected. I’m fearing it’s the latter.

There’s a tendency to backwards rationalize anything that is established in the US, that comes from a place of identity.

The current shape of the US is already the best and people consider it a part of who they are, so suggesting a course correction may be seen as both wrong think and a personal attack and wanting radical change would be outright treason.

There’s an array of standard stencils for defense against change: this is the only thing that can work here, this is the only thing that guarantees freedom, this is actually not that bad, I actually prefer it like this, anything else would be expensive/impossible/unamerican.

It’s not even unique to the US, but who cares about other places.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#395

Post by mcny »

vasco wrote: post #381
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

The government can give out toothpaste in school, it doesn't need to add things to water. The inviolability or integrity of one's own body to me is more important than any of this. You have the right to decide what medication to be given to you with informed consent always, or you have no freedom. Otherwise the freedom argument collapses and you stop having reasons to allow abortions, or a bunch of other informed con…

Would you also ban iron in wheat flour?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#396

Post by jvm___ »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Freedom from is the American way.

Freedom to is the Canadian way.

That's why Canada becoming an American anything is ridiculous and pisses off Canada so much that, for example, we've reduced our flights to America by +70% over the coming months.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#397

Post by koshergweilo »

adrian_b wrote: post #389
quitit wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The missing context here is that the science and established benefits of fluoride aren’t a culture war political football in those countries. These countries largely publicly recognise the benefits of fluoride, but don’t add it because: - Some countries opt for intake via supplementation. - Some have a naturally sufficient supply in drinking water via natural processes. - Some even need to reduce the abundance of flu…

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#398

Post by gblargg »

mjevans wrote: post #102
lolinder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.…

I'd be happier if that broken-but-correct-2x-a-day guy banned HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) instead. It is my personal hypothesis that it is the cause of 'sugar cancer' (general cases of bad sugars / imbalances of sugars in the body), including Diabetes.

You can avoid HFCS without any cost. Avoiding fluoridated city water is costly.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#399

Post by adrian_b »

bsza wrote: post #324
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

While I acknowledge it is not a "solved" issue, I find it bizarre nonetheless, simply because it is so disproportionately low-stakes compared to the amount of controversy around it. Increased risk of cavities versus tentative evidence of losing 1-2 IQ points at 1.5 mg/L? Sounds like a Monty Python sketch to me that people would get so worked up over this.

The risk of cavities is reduced by using toothpaste or mouth washes with fluoride, not by drinking fluoridated water.

Almost all fluoride from the drinking water does not have any effect on tooth enamel, because it has contact with it only for a few seconds, except for an infinitesimal fraction that may exit again the body in saliva.

On the other hand, the harmful effects of fluoride in drinking water are certain and it cannot be predicted exactly how much water will be ingested by someone, i.e. which will be the harmful dose of ingested fluoride.

The only argument of those who support water fluoridation is that most people must be morons who cannot be taught to wash their teeth. I do not believe that this theory can be right.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#400

Post by emmelaich »

estebank wrote: post #390
artvandelai wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding fluoride to water was revolutionary in the 1940s, but its benefits have significantly declined since fluoride toothpaste became common in the 1970s. While fluoridation made sense when products containing fluoride weren't widely available, it is much less effective and necessary now. Sure, some countries and communities may still see benefits from it, but widespread fluoridation doesn't seem necessary in many p…

There's a huge difference between "no longer as necessary" and "let's ban it".

Yeah but anyone can buy fluoride toothpaste so not really banned.
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