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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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391–400 of 695 posts

Re: The Burnout Machine

#391

Post by Apocryphon »

rockemsockem wrote: post #390
Apocryphon wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you can ask them domain-specific questions more relevant to the actual position you’re hiring them for? System design? Pair programming session? Debug a code sample? Present a solution for a home coding assignment? Anyway, many companies are outsourcing phone screens now to services such as Karat, where Kiwi contractor engineers provide 24/7 interview availability. Yet those interviews cannot be transferred fro…

Contracting out interviewing is nuts. IDK how a company can think that the level of validation you get in a coding interview is necessary and also think that it can be outsourced to someone else. They seem completely at odds with each other. I assume they're just cargo culting what other companies do though. I don't think memorizing trivia is a useful signal for a job, which is what a lot of "domain expertise" looks…

To be fair it’s just the phone screens, but this is the world we’re living in. Eventually someone will build another Triplebyte with AI evaluators and so on and it might actually catch on.

To go back full circle, if you get a decent credentialing system then people who can code can simply pass a test once (let’s say every 5-10 years) and be done with it instead of every single time they interview. DRY!

Re: The Burnout Machine

#392

Post by bb88 »

throwaway17824 wrote: post #309
kulahan wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t wrong. In every industry, there will always be people who struggle to find employment. It’s a necessary part of the economic machine. One hopes it is not always the same person suffering, of course. Still, absolutely everything about this industry is inflated. Pepsi just bought Poppi for $1.5B. That’s a HUGE DEAL, but hardly worth mentioning when compared with the $70B that Microsoft spent on Activision-Bl…

> Making $80k a year is a GREAT salary. That’s going to invoke a hearty yawn from many when comparing to dev salaries. I'd like to draw a distinction here: $80k is very good, by the standards of what most people can get. $80k is middling-to-poor compared to how fast the cost of living is going up. Housing prices are skyrocketing, people have no savings, can't afford emergencies. The economy is leaving people behind.…

The real issue is that companies aren't willing to increase pay even with the rate of inflation. This isn't a controversial take.

So yeah, you may be loyal to the company, and you may show loyalty by coming to all the "mandatory fun" events as well as the "all hands meetings." But the reality is that they pay the minimum what they can get away with. And the more loyal you are, the more they can pay less.

If you think about it, on one hand it's a market based approach -- which is probably the right answer for management to do. On the other hand, if there's no incentive for you to go out of your way, you won't. Nor will you work harder if all you're going to get is a %2 pay raise, even though the last year you closed on average 3 tickets per work day.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#393

Post by sensanaty »

Aeolun wrote: post #281
__loam wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredible that people like you will watch the industry lay off hundreds of thousands of workers then turn around and make this argument. It's like devs are allergic to any semblance of labor solidarity.

> It's like devs are allergic to any semblance of labor solidarity. I think that comes from seeing our field filled with people only in it for the money, doing the bare minimum that’ll keep them employed.

Why does that bother you though? I couldn't care less about how others work as long as they're not actively detrimental to everyone else. Hell, the managerial and C-suites are the ones that impact people the most negatively most of the time, yet we're complaining about someone who's got actual bills to pay for doing their job and not killing themselves over it.

The bare minimum is what everyone should be doing, because nobody owes their employers more than that

Re: The Burnout Machine

#394

Post by jakelazaroff »

theamk wrote: post #316
jakelazaroff wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of these things can't be true at once†: 1. Tech workers are currently treated as well as (or better than) we would be without unions. 2. Unions would cause companies to offshore jobs to developing markets with similar talent. If unions don't increase worker compensation, why would they cause companies to offshore jobs? Conversely, if companies could acquire comparable talent in emerging markets for less money, w…

Sure they can. Imagine the unions that make it hard to fire people - either because of individual performance, or because of downsizing. 1. Tech workers are currently treated well - good hours, good salary, great benefits, etc... (until they are fired / position is eliminated). 2. If unions appear which make firing people hard, companies would stop hiring in US, and switch to India or temp contractors.

I suppose "treated well" is kinda nebulous. Personally, I'd say it encompasses job security, so if unions make it hard to fire people then they are improving treatment of workers.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#395

Post by bb88 »

echelon wrote: post #228
snozolli wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers do basically no physical labor I developed debilitating tendinitis in both wrists right about the time I graduated college. A decade later, I developed a bulged disc in my neck that ended my career. There are very real risks to your body from sitting at a computer, deep in thought all day. There's a whole other swath of health issues, too, beside injury risks.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

In another comment you humblebragged that you made almost a 10 figure exit. Good for you and your success.

> I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement.

And you're punching down at someone who didn't have the genes you had?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#396

Post by nuclearnice3 »

mojomark wrote: post #342
roncesvalles wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience as a software engineer rounding out 6 years now, what I have observed in myself and others is that the work pressure that leads to burnout in SWEs is largely self-imposed. I have some conjectures as to why that may be: 1. High variability of pay, not only between companies but within companies. As a SWE your total compensation can be expected to double every two promotions, and promotions can be pret…

This is an interesting take, but I have a slightly different take. My ding dong company pays everyone including myself, salaries that are way too high. They gave ne a 30% raise I didn't even ask for or expect. We get a contract to do X, which say should take a team of 5 folks. However, we can only staff the contract with 3 folks because our salaries are too high. Now, we're all working 80hr weeks and stressed to the…

Simple conclusions

a) the people who have the stock now want to keep it and be more wealthy

b) they don’t have much regard for your physical or mental health

Re: The Burnout Machine

#397

Post by sensanaty »

legitster wrote: post #114
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels it lacks perspective with virtually any other occupations. On one hand, misery and happiness are relative. On the other hand, try telling a construction worker how hard our lives are sitting in chairs clicking buttons. My dad used to have to do things like hot tar roofing to pay the bills. So I still consider it a blessing to get to work in software. I thi…

I did physical labour when I was younger in a tropical climate and in certain ways it's easier than my SWE job is now.

There are days in SWE where I feel completely and utterly drained and brain dead despite doing nothing but just "clicking buttons". The physical exercise from the job site in comparison was heaven a lot of the time, and even these days when I'm stuck in my 4th useless meeting of the day, I find myself yearning for shovelling in the scorching sun.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#398

Post by sensanaty »

mulmen wrote: post #355
jajko wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of those problems disappear in Europe, quality of life and happiness skyrocket. Sure, you won't have some carrot-on-the-stick IPO games but I don't need to, I am not on the verge of burning out, I have plenty of time for my family and kids and also myself. Kids education is free including top notch unis, (almost) so is stellar healthcare, no need to massively save up for that regardless of what can happen. I had…

I live in the US and my employer provides excellent healthcare. I broke my collarbone last spring and had surgery to repair it followed by months of physical therapy. Zero dollars out of pocket.

That's the problem though, you're dependent on your company in order to not go bankrupt after your injury. If you get fired, you're screwed, if I get fired here in EU, it's not that big of a deal (plus it's harder to fire me in the first place)

Re: The Burnout Machine

#399

Post by mojomark »

mojomark wrote: post #342
roncesvalles wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience as a software engineer rounding out 6 years now, what I have observed in myself and others is that the work pressure that leads to burnout in SWEs is largely self-imposed. I have some conjectures as to why that may be: 1. High variability of pay, not only between companies but within companies. As a SWE your total compensation can be expected to double every two promotions, and promotions can be pret…

This is an interesting take, but I have a slightly different take. My ding dong company pays everyone including myself, salaries that are way too high. They gave ne a 30% raise I didn't even ask for or expect. We get a contract to do X, which say should take a team of 5 folks. However, we can only staff the contract with 3 folks because our salaries are too high. Now, we're all working 80hr weeks and stressed to the…

Really weird that my comment was downvoted. No idea why.

I guess HN just isn't for me after 10 years. Peace out.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#400

Post by krainboltgreene »

theamk wrote: post #316
jakelazaroff wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of these things can't be true at once†: 1. Tech workers are currently treated as well as (or better than) we would be without unions. 2. Unions would cause companies to offshore jobs to developing markets with similar talent. If unions don't increase worker compensation, why would they cause companies to offshore jobs? Conversely, if companies could acquire comparable talent in emerging markets for less money, w…

Sure they can. Imagine the unions that make it hard to fire people - either because of individual performance, or because of downsizing. 1. Tech workers are currently treated well - good hours, good salary, great benefits, etc... (until they are fired / position is eliminated). 2. If unions appear which make firing people hard, companies would stop hiring in US, and switch to India or temp contractors.

Brother they’ve been threatening that for decades. If that was possible they would have done it 40 years ago.
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