I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.
Just like HN crowd enjoy working on cool AI toys, now widely used to suppress people in china, iran, russia and soon the trumpland.
Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#392Is there any counter measure for this? Hardcore hearing protection? Noise cancelling headphones? Handheld sound insulation "shield"?
You could get another one of those machines and turn it on with a precisely calculated delay. :P
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#393I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.
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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
The opposition protesting here is 1/5 of the population of the country . Its basically all people. Like 1 million protesting in a country of 5 million , is all voters between 18- 59. Russia is loosing , the rot of oligarchy is dissolving.
It is impossible for Russia to "lose" in Serbia. The vast majority of Serbs support Russia, and are pissed at their government for not supporting it enough.
This is pure nonsense. These protests have nothing to do with Russia, and everything to do with corruption
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if mustard gas escalation is unlikely in protests, the reasoning behind banning the use of tear gas on protesters still matters: 1. The ban sends a clear message: chemical weapons of any kind are too dangerous to use on people. That's a good and important message to send. 2. If a government uses tear gas on its own citizens but condemns it in war, it creates a moral contradiction (even if the government don't se…
>1. The ban sends a clear message: chemical weapons of any kind are too dangerous to use on people. That's a good and important message to send. This is begging the question. The topic being discussed is whether "all chemical weapons (including tear gas) are bad". You can't use "we should ban all chemical weapons because it sends a clear message that all chemical weapons are bad" as a reason to justify that, it's cir…
> This is begging the question.
It's not. It's about setting a clear legal line.
> It's only a moral contradiction when people fall for the non-central fallacy that all chemical weapons are bad.
Who's begging the question here?
> You can literally say that about any other bad thing that police does.
Maybe police shouldn't be doing bad things? ... And maybe supporting them when they do bad things is also bad?
> This is obvious a derail, and has nothing to do with the use of tear gas, or the geneva convention.
Fascists and chemical weapons are not separate questions, because fascists are known to use extreme measures when suppressing dissent; systematically escalating past all previous reasonable lines.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#396Serbia had the LRAD systems on hand, after buying them in 2022, most likely from Genasys, but possibly from HyperSpike. https://genasys.com/lrad-products/ It's a legal gray area in Serbia where the use against civilians isn't explicitly forbidden, so they're playing fast and loose and moving fast to crush opposition. It's better than troops just gunning people down, but for a modern, supposedly civilized country it's…
Disagree with "We're not the world police, we don't need to enforce global norms"
Someone should definitely enforce international laws and norms and the US was in the best place to do it
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
160 dB way over hearing safe. Most rifle rounds are in >140 dB territory, and that is quite sufficient to give you permanent hearing damage.
The point is that LRADs are supposed to be an ethical alternative to guns and gases, as far as the original design intent is considered...
As LRADs are less ethical than CS gas, the true design intent is likely to produce something that looks insignificant on video recordings so it can be used as extrajudicial punishment of undesirables with less risk of public outcry.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
The opposition protesting here is 1/5 of the population of the country . Its basically all people. Like 1 million protesting in a country of 5 million , is all voters between 18- 59. Russia is loosing , the rot of oligarchy is dissolving.
It is impossible for Russia to "lose" in Serbia. The vast majority of Serbs support Russia, and are pissed at their government for not supporting it enough.
That's a blatant lie. We are protesting because 15 people died in Novi Sad because of corruption, 4 months ago. We want justice.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
Once they're shooting at you, or going after you in some other way, that legitimacy etc. is irrelevant, simply because they're going after you. The solution is then always an organized military response. This applies whether it's your government or somebody else's.
> The solution is then always an organized military response. In actual history, not always, and not that often. Case in point, for example, the Peterloo Massacre : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre took place at St Peter's Field, Manchester, Lancashire, England, on Monday 16 August 1819. Eighteen people died and 400–700 were injured when cavalry charged into a crowd of around 60,000 people who had gath…
I think Britain is special. It's always been about repression, Richard II said "You wretches detestable on land and sea: you who seek equality with lords are unworthy to live. Give this message to your colleagues: rustics you were, and rustics you are still; you will remain in bondage, not as before, but incomparably harsher. For as long as we live we will strive to suppress you, and your misery will be an example in the eyes of posterity" and so it has been, and Peterloo etc., are the demonstration.
The US has some stuff of this sort too, presumably at least partially inherited from British tradition.
Here in Sweden though, when we have attacked the government we have generally been successful and have obtained useful recompense. Violence, when you're organized and sensible, really works. It's terrifying to see properly organized people attack, because you know that even if you're willing to siege it out, level your own city, it's going to be like the Siege of Mariupol. If people know how to fight and have guns and mortars, there's no police force that can do anything useful, and no military force that can do anything useful without it being actual war, on your own territory.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?
They have been used against US citizens in the United States? That is news to me. If they have been used in other countries against US diplomatic corps that is an act of war. Now if a US citizen uses a visit to a foreign country to protest against a government they’re on their own. I’m sorry, but US citizens shouldn’t be engaging in that and the US state department has no obligation to protect that condition.
The US has also in some places explicitly legalized the use of cars as a lethal weapon against protestors: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-an...