Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#391

Post by wtcactus »

It’s appalling to see so many comments here defending what’s going on.

I’m trying to take it in good faith and accept these people actually think this instead of being paid to spread Russian disinformation. So, for those that are in good faith, as an European, I’ll explain mine (and my close circle) position:

It’s true that the USA doesn’t have any obligation of helping Ukraine and should be up to us, Europeans, to step up. But, Trump didn’t need to be a Russian disinformation asset about it and go through that, despicable , petty, childish display in the White House, where, preying together with his VP, they tried to frame Zelenskyy and Ukraine for starting a war.

They could just politely, and diplomatic reduce US aid, while still abiding by the most basic, absolute truth: Putin started this war and all fault for it lies in Russian hands and Ukraine is just a victim in all this.

This would be the upright, sensible and intelligent position to hold if they really just didn’t want to continue contributing to Ukraine’s defense with US’ money.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#392

Post by xg15 »

aemu wrote: post #210
bradhe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

Yeah, man. I have emigrated from Russia to EU five years ago and it is heartbreaking to see the developed US and some European countries go through the same bullshit we were going since 2011. Like half the country starts living in wild, completely imaginary world, and you can always tell what is the current agenda of the propaganda machine just by talking to some relatives who fell through that rabbit hole

It's definitely been more than three weeks.

As someone who lives in the EU and has the same kind of relatives, what I find frustrating is how little actual engagement with the Russian narratives there is from official sides. There is presented "evidence" for US influence in Ukraine long before the war, like the Victoria Nuland video, yet there seems to be no attempts at debunking those arguments, short of a catch-all labeling of all of it as disinformation (which, I can testify from personal experience, does absolutely nothing to dissuade people who already believe it).

The Selinskyji/Trump spat felt like an extreme version of this, where Selinskyji essentially argued with the Western/Ukrainian narrative of the war and Trump argued with the Russian narrative.

The strategy of "ignore the Russian narrative and hope not many people will latch on to it" evidently failed, so I think if we want to have a hope of solving this conflict and countering Trump (and maybe get back the parts of the population that follow the narrative), we at least have to engage with it and provide counterarguments.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#393

Post by perching_aix »

tiahura wrote: post #297
croes wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to burst your bubble, there is already a war and Russia is winning thanks to Trump. And don’t think it will be last one Russia started.

[flagged]

I don't think the Republicans, who champion freedom above all else usually, are making a whole lot better showing of themselves championing occupation, while simultainously making asinine arguments about how not doing so is a mere performative battle against Trump (supposedly), or runs contrary to peace itself. Mind you, these are the same people who want guns everywhere for people to "protect themselves" with, and will share around security footage from shops cackling, where the shop owner turns the third robber in a year into swiss cheese.

It really makes me wonder what kind of moral background is required to find supporting subservience through disgusting remarks less despicable than a hypocritical-or-not supporting of a hopeless fight. Like genuinely, how does one get to that point?

Although to be honest with you, the pushback using this argument doesn't seem nearly thought through enough for this. Instead, it's a mere spasmic reaction where people found a catchy clapback to the peace quote, and then end-of-proof right there. Great job indeed...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#394

Post by fhat151ag »

That is another pressure tactic so the EU can sell increased arms spending to its citizens.

The EU leaders, who are naive to the extreme, comply. They make peace plans that Russia is known not to accept. Once that is done, they'll keep the conflict on a low flame until the US feels getting involved again.

Which can happen at any moment, including under Trump within the next two months.

Trump has been deliberately provoking the EU's nationalistic feelings, starting with Greenland and ending with the Zelensky fallout theater.

If the EU had any pride, it would negotiate with Russia directly, skipping the US. Reopen Nordstream and see if the purportedly Russia-friendly Trump agrees.

Regarding Trump being a Russian asset: It has happened before, with Hillary Clinton and Sergey Lavrov initiating a "reset" in US/Russia relations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_reset

Why is Hilary Clinton not called a Russian asset?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#396

Post by kgwxd »

tiahura wrote: post #297
croes wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to burst your bubble, there is already a war and Russia is winning thanks to Trump. And don’t think it will be last one Russia started.

[flagged]

WTF? Battle against Trump? Oh right, being on the reasonable side of anything makes one a "never-Trumper". Trump has nothing to do with it. He's not relevant to every decision everybody makes, and every opinion they have, just because you think he's the second coming.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#397

Post by Narretz »

narrator wrote: post #186
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

The difference is Israel's enemies are easy to defeat. Russia, not so much. Europe made the same mistake as in world war II. Believing their own propaganda and convincing themselves that Russia would be easy to defeat. Trump talks to the military and knows what's reality.

Israel is using these bombs on Hamas and Hezbollah mostly, both of which it hasn't defeated after 1 1/2 years of complete material superiority. It's actually impossible to defeat an enemy that uses asymmetric warfare. Israel already knows this, but Netanjahu needs the war to continue to stay in power.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#398

Post by deeviant »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #388
nuccy wrote: post #6

Thus two messages for every other country: 1. Make nukes, never give up on those regardless of what assurances of safety you get 2. If you are bigger and stronger - you are right, do whatever you want, international laws and rules do not matter any more Lets see where all this will bring the world to in the next 10 years or a generation.

[flagged]

That is incorrect, standard Single-issue tunnel vision (which is very much promoted by Russian propaganda).

NATO, with America leading, gave the world the longest stretch of relative peace it has ever seen. The next 80 years will not be the same, if we even survive it. Every major power will have to be nuclear, and every smaller power will be moving to it.

Invasion of sovereign countries and Imperialism is going to spike. You think the world is just going to watch Russia invade and conquer a sovereign democratic nation and get away Scott-free and not want to do the same?

Frankly, the true propaganda win of Russia wasn't with the red side, they were always easy to influence, but with their splitting of the blue side, carving off great sections of it into purity-testing irrelevancy.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#399

Post by gruez »

ty6853 wrote: post #191
citrin_ru wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's plausible that Trump owes some $$$ but what would stop Trump from just refusing to pay the debt back?

It would come as no surprise if Russian intelligence has some juicy blackmail material.

Against the man that seemingly suffered no setback from "grab her by the pussy" and all the various lawsuits?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#400

Post by openasocket »

egberts1 wrote: post #360
Justsignedup wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know. The Ukranian constitution states no elections during war. All political opponents have come out and said we will hold elections after victory. Nobody is against postponement. Ukraine has had healthy consistent elections since the Russian backed government was booted out.

[flagged]

How do you intend to conduct an election during an active war when 20% of the country, over 3 million Ukrainians, are under Russian occupation? Do they just not get to vote?
Post reply on HN