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Apple's Software Quality Crisis

eliseomartelli.it

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Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#391

Post by matteason »

jeroenhd wrote: post #238
markus_zhang wrote: post #66

I just don't understand why Apple UI designers hate scroll bars with such a passion. It's probably just me, but I feel that many apps on Apple follows the same pattern. For example checkout and compare the scroll bar experience on ChatGPT website (Chrome) between a Mac-book and a Windows laptop.

Apple's scroll bar allergy leads to some quite funny (to me, anyway) problems with major websites. Some companies seem to have their entire web dev + QA + management staff on Macbooks, because on any other desktop platform their websites are COVERED in useless scrollbars that scroll maybe one or two pixels. I've even seen scrollbars cover up half part of a company's logo. All of that money spent on hyper expensive la…

Yep - overflow: scroll rather than overflow: auto. I've seen Google fall foul of this

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#392

Post by crmd »

kovac wrote: post #386
dandellion wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the feeling. I'm forced to use a Mac laptop for work, and it's really made me appreciate Linux.

Ha. I have to use Linux (Arch) sometimes, and it's made me appreciate OpenBSD :)

Corp IT recently banned my Indy with IRIX 6.5.32 daily driver from the network for some bureaucratic reason. I feel your pain.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#393

Post by markus_zhang »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #311
swat535 wrote: post #212

It's not just Apple guys, it's everywhere. Software quality has seriously declined across the board, from Spotify to Slack to core operating systems like Windows and macOS. I think a major factor is corporate culture, which largely ignores software quality. Another issue is that many engineers lack a solid understanding of CS fundamentals like performance, security, and reliability (perhaps this is why many are not a…

There are plenty of us that would love to just sit and fix things all day, but then you get a poor performance review for not shipping new features and find yourself out of a job :)

I wonder how can I join MSFT or Apple just to fix stuffs? Don't care about salary as long as it's on par with my current one.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#394

Post by burnte »

pico303 wrote: post #331

As someone forced to use a Windows laptop for work with the new job, I've stopped complaining about my Mac. It's so much worse on the other side of the fence... Working on Windows makes me appreciate the Mac ecosystem so, so, so very much.

None are actually better than any other, they're al great but fir different types of users and what they value.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#395

Post by nikolay »

pico303 wrote: post #331

As someone forced to use a Windows laptop for work with the new job, I've stopped complaining about my Mac. It's so much worse on the other side of the fence... Working on Windows makes me appreciate the Mac ecosystem so, so, so very much.

That's not true and your opinion is subjective. Windows 11 is a great developer platform.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#396

Post by _aavaa_ »

bondolo wrote: post #390

While I worked at Apple in 2021-22 their issues seemed about the same as nearly every other company producing consumer apps and devices; bloated slow garbage with very mediocre quality. Their engineering culture is terrible, especially as it relates to transfer of the “Apple ethos” to the next generation of devs. Apple is going to be indistinguishable from the rest of the pack within the next decade. But most of all…

> Enter a birth date in a contact entry without a year.

I’m glad I’m not the only one. It’s mind boggling. I’ve had to start putting in my best guess just to have it save…

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#397

Post by sureIy »

WatchDog wrote: post #301
tbeseda wrote: post #27

Anecdotally, Apple Music has deteriorated exponentially for me. iTunes was such a stable, usable piece of software, but I can't get reliable use out of Apple Music for the life of me. It _feels_ like a shoddy Electron app. But that's not fair to the actual Electron (or similar) apps that actually work. For all its many design and product flaws, Spotify actually works.

My last experience with iTunes was a long long time ago, in the iPod days, when you needed to use it to sync music, but it was a horrible piece of software back then.

Did you use it on Windows? I never understood the hate for iTunes. It was a dream for someone like me who'd spend hours customizing their library. A far cry from today's software from Apple.

In fact, I was never able to use Apple Music because it handled bad internet atrociously. And last time I checked (2022?) it was still not fixed.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#398

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

nicce wrote: post #330
rafaelmn wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except none of Apple stuff is Electron based, and as far as I am aware of Apple salaries are competitive with top companies - so none of your arguments really hold up.

My reply was mostly for the parent comment. Apple software is still top tier when you start comparing to Slack, Teams, and all the non-native friends. Apple Music does not take close to 1GB of RAM. There are very few native applications these days because of the cost. And lower cost availability is based on the web stack and lower entry level of skills. MacOS may have bugs but in general they are well engineered. Sta…

Dev at Apple seems immensely political and corporate. From the outside it looks very much as there are points for shipping $new_thing, even if no one out there wants $new_thing.

The whole marketing cycle is based on a endless stream of $new_things that give Tim Cook something to talk about during those slick presentations - presumably so he doesn't spend all his time making prayer gestures and talking slowly.

There doesn't seem to be anyone in charge of overall user experience who can say "Why does Facetime get so confused by different numbers and devices owned by one person? Why does the shared clipboard only work some of the time? Did the Settings app really need a new UI? Why hasn't Finder been updated since forever?"

And so on.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#399

Post by sureIy »

criddell wrote: post #138
tbeseda wrote: post #27

Anecdotally, Apple Music has deteriorated exponentially for me. iTunes was such a stable, usable piece of software, but I can't get reliable use out of Apple Music for the life of me. It _feels_ like a shoddy Electron app. But that's not fair to the actual Electron (or similar) apps that actually work. For all its many design and product flaws, Spotify actually works.

I use Apple Music on my Windows work computer and it's pretty good. I still have iTunes on my home Windows PC (I use it for ripping CDs) and it takes much longer to start.

To be fair iTunes had become such a kitchen sync software. The Windows version is universally hated I think, I remember hearing jokes about iTunes on regular TV talk shows.

Re: Apple's Software Quality Crisis

#400

Post by ABCpickD »

webdever wrote: post #338
pico303 wrote: post #331

As someone forced to use a Windows laptop for work with the new job, I've stopped complaining about my Mac. It's so much worse on the other side of the fence... Working on Windows makes me appreciate the Mac ecosystem so, so, so very much.

As someone who works on both I don't notice a difference. Mac sucks just as much as Windows (or visa versa). There's things each does better and things each does worse.

The answer with any discussion of this nature is to immediately disregard any and all answer that doesn't come in, unprompted, with an explanation.

Which is about 90% of the comments here. Not a joke. I have counted 18 and see only 2 with specific gripes. Worthless comment section. (Sorry, but I did include yours too)

I was 16 when I first met the first big "Mac is better than Windows" argument in person. I asked why, and they mentioned a number of things that didn't feel relevant to the people at the table, but the one that stood out was a particular feature that was indeed quite useful. Well, I didn't know how to respond at the time, but as soon as I got home, I checked with windows and the feature was right there.

I don't think they were wrong for their preference. In fact, back then there was a lot of major differences in the workflow for these OS that isn't as big nowadays, specially if you're someone who can actually use google for more than 20 seconds. But the interaction proved to me the importance of being able to back your stance, because, if you don't, you may as well be just another 16 year old idiot with 0 technical or practical knowledge of the stuff that dictated your preference. They don't learn how to resolve their problems with them either, if they hide the reasons from others. So, again, worthless - take up screen space that could have better comments, while informing nothing and helping no one.

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