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Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

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Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#391
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This appears to be a targeted cut of insubordinate or redundant individuals. What a wild take! Only some of sooo many reports all over the media 5-6 days ago that you somehow missed: "Key US agencies tell staff not to answer Musk email on what they did last week" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj0qrj20g5vo "Elon Musk’s Federal Worker Emails: Agency Leaders Can Decide If Employees Must Reply, White House Says" ht…

Sounds like insubordination.

A previous memo from the exact same email address as the "5 bullets" email told employees that this email account was being established as a way to communicate with every single federal employee at once, and stated clearly that no one was obligated to reply to any messages from the email account. They can't even figure out what the hell they are doing and be consistent with their own messages.

Once again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#392
post #294
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk is not the boss or the king to order employees to submit to his will. And yet you act like he is. Who is he to order DoD or DoJ employees to write this email?

DOGE is not equal to Elon

Neither DOGE nor Elon wrote this email. OPM did. Since OPM is now ran by a former Elon employee, they probably sent it at Elon’s request. Maybe the President was informed beforehand maybe not.

It doesn’t matter either way. The President has the authority to order employees to perform certain tasks but he has to do it through proper channels.

OPM doesn’t have the authority to order non-OPM employees to perform specific duties. They never have in the past. And the President has issued no executive orders stating that OPM has this authority now.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#393

The headline sucks (as of this posting) as one it doesn’t match and two even the matching headline is not accurate. Mark Cuban is encouraging the employees of 18F to start their venture to provide govt services. He will invest hoping that DOGE will see right through their mistakes and seek to hire them back. Except he is wrong. Musk is a lot of things but one thing he isn’t capable of is backtracking showing his acti…

Update : HN headline has been updated.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#394
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally a myth that government employees are somehow receiving low total compensation and they could do better in the real economy. Here's one government employees providing stats and experiences about what it is like to work for the government: https://www.betonit.ai/p/the-joy-of-government-employment

The salary cap for most federal employees is $195,200 - that's the max for any level of experience. Big law firms are paying 225,000 for new grads and it goes up quickly from there. The median software engineer salary in the bay area is 260K. There are a lot of careers where a smart and motivated person could instantly be doing better switching from public to private.

I don't think SF tech pay is a sane benchmark. Presumably those government employees live somewhere more affordable for a start.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#395

D+ grade headline. His full offer and message: “If you worked for 18F and got fired, Group together to start a consulting company,” wrote Cuban. “It’s just a matter of time before DOGE needs you to fix the mess they inevitably created. They will have to hire your company as a contractor to fix it. But on your terms. I’m happy to invest and/or help.”

Never rejoin under somebody that's already fired you. They are being forced to do it and will fire you again at the first chance. Only go back if the management has changed. In this case, that means "If doge is gone".

that's not always the case. I've seen situations where managers were forced to lay people off due to a company decision. When the company stabilized in a few months, managers reached out to these fired and they happily joined back. It's all a matter of treating people with empathy and honesty even in bad scenarios. That being said, this is most likely not one of these cases.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this exactly. Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda. Govt is just people, and people are flawed and have competing incentives. I've worked in massive companies that have incredibly dumb inefficiencies.

> Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda I (and many others) have worked for, contracted for, interacted with, and/or closely observed government for decades. The only “reflexive” thing here is your argument that people who disagree with the you are the victims of propaganda. You can certainly quibble with the details on how to deliver government efficiency (and I highly encourage people…

Recall that we are posting in a thread about DOGE cutting one of the more effective and efficient departments in the federal government. Popular support and good reasons for it notwithstanding, it's clear that the actual mission is not being carried out in good faith.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading every thread related to DOGE reveals the same pattern. Defenders of DOGE, being unable to amount any defence for actual actions the thread is highlighting, have to construct the straw man of arguing that anybody suggesting those actions are spectacularly inept and counterproductive it is thinks that government is unimprovable. P.S. Have plenty of experience selling to inefficient public and private sector ent…

The straw man is pushing the idea that nothing should ever be touched because all of it is essential. Somewhere between don't touch anything and destroy it all is the truth. Finding and fixing problems of this type, whether it is in the private or public domains is difficult and ugly. It never looks good. It never feels good. That's just reality. BTW, I keep reading and hearing derogative terms like "script kiddies"…

> BTW, I keep reading and hearing derogative terms like "script kiddies" and "20 year olds". What's happened to diversity and inclusion? So, they have to be of a certain age? What's the magical age? And, do they have to come from the same place that created the problems as well? This isn't sensible at all.

I don't support DOGE, but I have also wondered if all the roasting them for being young is fair. For now I landed on yes, it's a fair criticism -- these people are too young to be put in control of massive agencies that have been running for decades. If you believe they can make the right choice because it's so obvious, it seems like we may as well just fire everyone, and then we can save the time and expense of even having DOGE. It is not logical IMO to say that some discretion is needed but also unelected 20-year-olds have enough discretion.

Re "script kiddies": the term is a bit rude maybe. But given it means an unskilled programmer who is only barely able to use programs written by others, then yes, it is fair to criticize these DOGE people, whose primary qualification was supposedly being really smart programmers, if they don't appear to meet the mark. (I'm not taking a position on whether it's factual that they are unskilled, but simply whether a "script kiddie" belongs at a helm of the government.)

Regarding DEI, it does seem like DOGE might be more diverse than some people portray it, and not everyone is a 20-year-old. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/02/27/us/politics/d...

Regarding what's the right age, I think of Constitutional age limits and Congressional confirmations -- those are the ways we normally have to make sure people are old enough to work in the government. But the side that's been harping about "unelected bureaucrats" is now making the most powerful bureaucrats ever, not subject to election, legal qualifications, or Congressional oversight. Hmm.

> do they have to come from the same place that created the problems as well? This isn't sensible at all.

Well, no, but I have the impression the place they are coming from is "likes right-wing tech leaders like Elon Musk and has worked for them before." I'm not going to dig into investigating or presenting that now, but if it's true, then it's not sensible either. Even under a more charitable characterization of who they are, I don't think engineers, PMs, or MBAs are going to rapidly fix agencies that have been operating in a different sphere and scale. If they went at a more careful pace than DOGE has been doing, I might have more trust they would solve problems.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which facts do you believe are not straight?

I would assume they're pointing at the comment at the top of this thread ("They built / manage login.gov?") rather than the article itself.

I guess that's why I'm confused, which facts are not straight or were corrected?

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#399
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a random person joined your company’s Slack and said “tell me what you do, or I will fire you,” and your CEO then said to ignore it, which one would you go with?

If the board of my company (my CEO’s boss) showed up in Slack and asked, I would probably listen to my CEO’s boss. And what a poor CEO for risking his entire workforce and his own position on a political squabble.

> If the board of my company (my CEO’s boss) showed up in Slack and asked, I would probably listen to my CEO’s boss.

DOGE are not the boss of most (any?) government departments. Its entire purpose, legally, is to improve software: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/esta...

So once again, who are they to ask this, legally? Who are they to fire employees from other departments who rightfully deny this request?

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#400

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

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