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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#391

Post by mixmastamyk »

realityking wrote: post #344
cbozeman wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. > I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal i…

> Yeah... nothing more I love than having to scan a QR code to get an app from someone I don't know, then go through the signup process, then input a buncha personal information into an app... instead of just dropping 10 quarters into a metal stick and walking away for the next two hours. Quality of execution obviously matters. I find EasyPark (Swedish company, used all over the place) a lot better than the usual par…

The point is all these things should be options, not single points of failure. We should be able to pay by coin/tap, or app when at a place we frequent. Apps should use a single system per region, props for being an open standard.

We have the technology.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#393

Post by eesmith »

invalidname wrote: post #13
rwmj wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the app is required - which has happened already (eg. bank apps, car charging) or could happen in the future - then I think it's reasonable to call this bad. Maybe not a "tyranny", we'd probably want to reserve that for the government doing it, but not good news.

Why? It's a tool. Do you complain when the bank requires you to sign something with a pen? We require computers today for many things. Why not force websites to provide phone service with exactly the same pricing. Guess what the effect will be? Higher prices. The same is true with apps, some things make no financial sense without them.

I would complain if the bank requires everyone to sign with a pen as there are disability reasons for why someone is unable to sign with a pen.

Eg, https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/250d63/was_u... has "We used prints as my partner was dying and lost motor control."

Or, think of Stephen Hawking, able to communicate but unable to operate a pen in the later part of his life. Wouldn't you complain if he had been unable to control his bank account because he couldn't use a pen?

The relevant Uniform Commercial Code has a wider definition of what counts as a signature than using a pen, § 3-401, https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-401 .

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#394

Post by janc_ »

reaperman wrote: post #227
7thaccount wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the doctor's office I'll just ask for paper if there is no real website. Apps freaking suck. I probably won't be able to do this forever though. Example of enshitification #456249

I often can no longer ask for a menu at restaurants that expect me to scan a QR code. Well…I can ask, but they don’t have any to provide.

"Online menus" are fine; they allow quick updates without requiring the restaurant to re-print menus, and allow for just one copy/version of the menu to be used everywhere.

But then they should also display them publicly outside/inside, and/or have a bunch of tablets ready for visitors to use.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#395

Post by otterley »

cess11 wrote: post #386
otterley wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be called “slavery.”

You equate doing things for other people without money transactions, with slavery?

If it’s mandated by law, yes.

What would you call it if you were required to work—paid or otherwise—under threat of criminal punishment?

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#396

Post by jagged-chisel »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #300
ndriscoll wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perpetual spinner thing happened at my last job too, and I developed the opinion that putting a spinner into your site at all is a sign of incompetence. For any normal CRUD app, it should take milliseconds to do whatever task. Even with network delays, 150 milliseconds is a reasonable upper bound for end-to-end processing. If you have an animation at all, then your thing is either ridiculously slow or broken. Eit…

> For any normal CRUD app, it should take milliseconds to do whatever task. Even with network delays, 150 milliseconds is a reasonable upper bound for end-to-end processing This is only really true with stable, high speed internet connections. We still cannot take for granted that everyone has that, especially not in rural areas and double especially not on mobile devices

So many places in apps just wait for no reason. Let's take a hypothetical situation:

Suppose you're doing gig delivery. You're delivering to two customers in the same neighborhood on the same run. You drop the first order, take your photo of the drop, and the app spins. It's waiting for the photo to be delivered before it moves on. You can't get directions to the next customer until the app moves along. Why can't it just take the photo, take the text description, and hold that until service is better? Just give the driver the map, and upload the other stuff when you can.

I have similar issues with every app. It seems like every user interaction, every button press requires a round-trip to the server before the app moves to the next step. There's no reason for this. I wager that every app can keep its UI and the user's data locally, and send and receive teensy data updates.

But all "the best" software development employees (that they claim their hiring process hires) in these companies can't seem to work that out.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#397

Post by noah_buddy »

pqtyw wrote: post #141
joshdavham wrote: post #127

I’m fascinated by this phenomenon of apps proposing solutions that are far worse than the previous existing solutions. For example: 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. 2. Tinder is worse than IRL speed dating. 3. Duolingo is worse than language classes. 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. 5. Etc It really makes me frustrated as someone who builds software and generally thinks…

> 1. Parking apps are worse than parking meters. I certainly don't agree with that one. I really don't miss having to pay for a fixed number of hours and then having to figure out what to do if I'm running late (or wasting money if I get back early). > 4. Airline apps that are worse than just printing a boarding pass. Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is muc…

The idea of a parking app is better than the physical process of using a meter generally. But I have not really seen an app flow better than the physical process despite having parked in many cities. In fact, I can come up with a simple physical process better than the apps by far: tap the meter in and tap the meter out with your NFC chip in the card.

Pay for the exact time, or if you forget, pay the full time period you’re legally allowed to park.

Instead, on my city’s app I must select a car (despite having only one), select a zone (despite GPS), and then manually enter my card (despite it being my account default). Every time.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#398

Post by kortilla »

Henchman21 wrote: post #266
Boogie_Man wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does this constitute a hostile action against the user and what degree of retaliation is appropriate? Open question for everyone.

I’m gonna punt on the question of where the line is for hostile actions and use some past legal justification of “I know it when I see it” and I see it clearly here. The second part is the more interesting question to me: Appropriate reactions would seem to include: - finding a new doctor/practice/provider. Super hard in practice as they seem to be geographical monopolies a la the cable networks - providing appropria…

VOTE MOTHERFUCKER

Local government politics work. State politics even kinda work.

The fact that murder is on your list but not voting is mind boggling.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#399

Post by MandieD »

miltonlost wrote: post #366
MandieD wrote: post #362

The big group that keeps getting ignored are older people who actually do have smartphones, but find them increasingly difficult to use as they age, due to how fiddly touch interfaces can be and visuals designed by and for people in their 20s, not 70s and 80s. Typing on a smartphone is impossible for my 70-something father, even on the larger models.

Touchscreens also frequently don't work with older people's skin which is often dry. They often literally cannot type because the screen doesn't pick up the electrical currents in the drier, more insulated fingers. Physical keyboards wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s what my dad’s problem boils down to. He worked in construction for half a century, specializing in concrete, so heaven knows what that did to the skin on his fingertips.
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