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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#391

IMF gave them 1.4 billion to abandon the “experiment”: > The IMF made this a condition for a loan of 1.4 billion US dollars (1.35 billion euros). In December of last year, the IMF reached an agreement with President Nayib Bukele’s government on the loan of the stated amount to strengthen the country’s “fiscal sustainability” and mitigate the “risks associated with Bitcoin,” as it was described. —- I dislike cryptocur…

Why do they need a loan if BTC makes them an economic powerhouse?

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#392
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. Food, medicine, transportation, education, and everything else at or near the bottom of Maslow's pyramid of needs still cannot be directly purchased with bitcoin. The other punchline to the Bitcoin joke is that it's finite. In 120 years it will begin to evaporate from existence as more and more wallets are simply lost to time.

It is highly divisible though, there’s 2.1e15 satoshi and 2.3e14 cents in the world (re google). It can lose 90% of itself before being unable to replace cents. Also, the network can just agree to change the protocol to fix this issue, should it arise. Countries do redenominations all the time.

I think the fundamental appeal of Bitcoin is the lack of ability to change the protocol based on any external factors at all.

Otherwise it's just fiat all over again

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post you're replying to is about Bitcoin being "used", not specifically "used for everyday transactions". Bitcoin has so far been a decent asset to hold as a store of value if you don't want to or can't store your money in the traditional financial system. Lots of everyday people in countries with high inflation or strict controls or how people can store money hold Bitcoin (or perhaps more commonly, stablecoins)…

BTC cash has lower fees I believe, I wonder if it could actually work as a currency for day to day payments.

30 minute transaction times are kind of a deal-breaker. 3 seconds is the edge of reasonable.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#394
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massive success actually for anyone holding. Did you forget the price is $100k?

And it was $92k just less than 24 hours ago. That’s why it’s bad for currencies because people can’t make meaningful plans more than a few hours out, and it’s terrible for the economy if you incentivize everyone to reduce spending in the hopes that speculators will make you rich later. Real currencies circulate so the same dollar is spent by many people, benefiting each of them while you’re still holding onto your Bi…

But gold fluctuates rapidly at times at well. Not the same volatility but it does fall

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#395
post #383

Structurally, Bitcoin is a lousy idea for a currency as it is intrinsically deflationary (i.e., even without the speculative inflating of the cost of a Bitcoin, the structure of the coin is such that coins become increasingly scarce and expensive as time goes by). You do not want this in your currency. The ideal is a low-level of inflation which provides an incentive to spend sooner rather than later. With a deflatio…

Maybe more importantly even, you need a currency which you can tune in real-time via a central bank.

This is one of the reasons that dollar-dependent economies have a hard time managing fluctuations.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#396
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're not supposed to hold legal tender, by design you're supposed to spend it.

gestures at all of the billionaires

Billionaires hold very little legal tender.

The term "Billionaire" refers to a person who has total assets over a billion. In most cases those assets are shares in some company (or companies). It's not like they have a billion in their sock drawer.

By contrast, when at rest in my wallet, bitcoin is "dormant". It's not earning any interest and other not circulating in the economy. The only "growth" is capital growth.

That growth is predicted on demand outstripping supply. Or on "bigger fools". When the fools run out you're left with tulips.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#397
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to point to a single case where Bitcoin was used as legal tender in an every day business transaction? By this I mean, can you give an example where someone ordered a cup of coffee with Bitcoin directly and not through a proxy?

The post you're replying to is about Bitcoin being "used", not specifically "used for everyday transactions". Bitcoin has so far been a decent asset to hold as a store of value if you don't want to or can't store your money in the traditional financial system. Lots of everyday people in countries with high inflation or strict controls or how people can store money hold Bitcoin (or perhaps more commonly, stablecoins)…

>Bitcoin has only failed so far as a replacement for Visa and Mastercard. So no, nobody's using it to buy coffee.

It not being "used" in this context is referring to it not being used as legal tender. The law that was walked back was one which had made bitcoin legal tender throughout the country. As others have mentioned, it seems to have largely failed in being adopted as such, as surveys seem to indicate that less than 10% of people in the country had used it as legal tender in the previous year.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governmental monetary systems are usually founded on hopes and prayers (and military might).

Military Might ( and hopes and prayers)

Depends on the particular government. The ones that are heavy on hopes and prayers usually don’t do well though.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#399
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says "92% of Salvadorans did not use bitcoin in their transactions in 2024". Which means that 8% did use it in their transactions.

it is probably the same with gold - in fact, i say gold is used even less in transactions. Yet, nobody would deny that gold cannot form a good monetary foundation . Of course, it's not the best - fiat is still, imho, better - but it doesn't mean it can't work. So why is the IMF so against bitcoins that they'd rather pay to eliminate it? Or are the IMF scared that bitcoin can actually succeed, in a way which prevents…

Ahh yes, the age old “let’s use a precious metal to denominate our currency” idea.

Cryptocurrency bros are literally speedrunning the entirety of monetary system failures. All of them. You’d think, maybe after the first couple they’d read a book or something?

Heck no! YOLO!

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#400
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If bitcoin was such a success then why did they need an enormous loan?

If the USD was such a good currency, why does the US operate at a deficit?

If you can get a 10 year loan at 2% interest rates (below inflation), you would be an idiot not to take it.
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