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Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

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Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#391
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I think about this project, along with all of Trump's plans, is that he wants to maximize the US's economic output to ensure we are competitive with China in the future. Yes, it would make money for stockholders. But it's much more than that: it's an empire-scale psychological game for leverage in the future.

> he wants to maximize the US's economic output to ensure we are competitive with China in the future. LOL Under Trump policies, China will win "in the future" on energy and protein production alone. Once we've speedrunned our petro supply and exhausted our agricultural inputs with unfathomably inefficient protein production, China can sit back and watch us crumble under our own starvation. No conflict necessary unde…

> They're playing the game on a scale of centuries

What's going to be left of their population in a single century?

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#393

You have to keep in mind Microsoft is planning on spending almost 100B in datacenter capex this year and they're not alone. This is basically OpenAI matching the major cloud provider's spending. This could also be (at least partly) a reaction to Microsoft threatening to pull OpenAI's cloud credits last year. OpenAI wants to maintain independence and with compute accounting for 25–50% of their expenses (currently) [2]…

Serious question - why Texas???

Texas is a world leader in renewable energy. Easy permitting, lots of space, lots of existing grid infrastructure from the o&g industry.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#394

You have to keep in mind Microsoft is planning on spending almost 100B in datacenter capex this year and they're not alone. This is basically OpenAI matching the major cloud provider's spending. This could also be (at least partly) a reaction to Microsoft threatening to pull OpenAI's cloud credits last year. OpenAI wants to maintain independence and with compute accounting for 25–50% of their expenses (currently) [2]…

Serious question - why Texas???

My kneejerk response was to point to the incoming administration, but the fact Stargate has been in the works for more than a year now says to me it's because of tax credits.

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#396
post #49
post #16

Any clues to how they plan to invest $500 billion dollars? What infrastructure are they planning that will cost that much?

That was literally my question. Is this basically just for more datacenters, NVidia chips, and electricity with a sprinkling of engineers to run it all? If so, then that $500bn should NOT be invested in today's tech, but instead in making more powerful and power efficient chips, IMO.

Add some nuclear power and you’ve suddenly got a big bill

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#397

Where are they getting the $500B? Softbank's market cap is 84b and their entire vision fund is only $100b, Oracle only has $11b cash on hand, OpenAI's only raised $17b total...

Quite possibly pulled out of their asses...

If Son can actually build a 500B Vision Fund it can only come from one of two places...

somehow the dollar depreciates radically OR Saudis

Vision Fund was heavily invested in by the Saudis so...

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#399

Why is Larry Ellison giving a speech about the power of AI to cure disease? How is Oracle relevant at all to any of AI progress in the past few years?

Oracle actually has a ton of gpus

Not sure how they knew to buy them or why but they have them. Mostly seem to be lending them out. Think mostly OpenAI. Or was it MS. One of the big dogs

Re: Stargate Project: SoftBank, OpenAI, Oracle, MGX to build data centers

#400
It was rumoured in early 2024 that "Stargate" was planned to require 5GW data centre capacity[1][2] which in early 2024 was the entire data centre capacity Microsoft had already built[3]. Data centre capacity costs between USD$9-15m/MW[6] so 5GW of new data centre capacity would cost USD$45b-$75b but let's pick a more median cost of USD12m/MW[6] to arrive at USD$60b for 5GW of new data centre capacity.

This 5GW data centre capacity very roughly equates to 350000x NVIDIA DGX B200 (with 14.3kW maximum power consumption[4] and USD$500k price tag[5]) which if NVIDIA were selected would result in a very approximate total procurement of USD$175b from NVIDIA.

On top of the empty data centres and DGX B200's and in the remaining (potential) USD$265b we have to add:

* Networking equipment / fibre network builds between data centres.

* Engineering / software development / research and development across 4 years to design, build and be able to use the newly built infrastructure. This was estimated in mid 2024 to cost OpenAI US$1.5b/yr for retaining 1500 employees, or USD$1m/yr/employee[7]. Obviously this is a fraction of the total workforce needed to design and build out all the additional infrastructure that Microsoft, Oracle, etc would have to deliver.

* Electricity supply costs for current/initial operation. As an aside, these costs seemingly not be competitive with other global competitors if the USA decides to avoid the cheapest method of generation (renewables) and instead prefer the more expensive generation methods (nuclear, fossil fuels). It is however worth noting that China currently has ~80% of solar PV module manufacturing capacity and ~95% of wafer manufacturing capacity.[10]

* Costs for obtaining training data.

* Obsolescence management (4 years is a long time after which equipment will likely need to be completely replaced due to obsolescence).

* Any other current and ongoing costs of Microsoft, Oracle and OpenAI that they'll likely roll into the total announced amount to make it sound more impressive. As an example this could include R&D and sustainment costs in corporate ICT infrastructure and shared services such as authentication and security monitoring systems.

The question we can then turn to is whether this rate of spend can actually be achieved in 4 years?

Microsoft is planning to spend USD$80bn building data centres in 2025[7] with 1.5GW of new capacity to be added in the first six months of 2025[3]. This USD$80bn planned spend is for more than "Stargate" and would include all their other business units that require data centres to be built, so the total required spend of USD$45b-$75b to add 5GW data centre capacity is unlikely to be achieved quickly by Microsoft alone, hence the apparent reason for Oracle's involvement. However, Oracle are only planning a US$10b capital expenditure in 2025 equating to ~0.8GW capacity expansion[9]. The data centre builds will be schedule critical for the "Stargate" project because equipment can't be installed and turned on and large models trained (a lengthy activity) until data centres exist. And data centre builds are heavily dependent on electricity generation and transmission expansion which is slow to expand.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39869158

[2] https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/microsoft-openai-...

[3] https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/microsoft-to-doub...

[4] https://resources.nvidia.com/en-us-dgx-systems/dgx-b200-data...

[5] https://wccftech.com/nvidia-blackwell-dgx-b200-price-half-a-...

[6] https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/united-states/insights/d...

[7] https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/01/03/the-gol...

[8] https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/openai-training-a...

[9] https://www.crn.com.au/news/oracle-q3-2024-ellison-says-ai-i...

[10] https://www.iea.org/reports/advancing-clean-technology-manuf...

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