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Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

chuckwnelson.com

391–400 of 504 posts

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT has had web search for exactly 58 days. I guess our definitions of 'ages' differ by several orders of magnitude.

The paid version has had web access for at least a year March 23rd 2023 https://openai.com/index/chatgpt-plugins/ That’s 666 days. So you are off by over “one order of magnitude”

A plugin? You’re joking.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're not the real customers any more. Were we ever? I didn’t pay for search. I don’t pay for email.

I pay for both now (Kagi, Runbox). It’s just so much better.

I’m a Kagi customer too, and I’ve got the family on it. I don’t miss Google at all. Block lists, Wiki hit at the top. It’s great.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inb4 we all tell you you're using it wrong. There are certainly better ways to do this, but this is really the major thing that drives me nuts. No matter how many times I tell some LLM I want it to ask clarifying questions to provide better answers, it just won't. You end up doing exactly this, guessing what information might trigger the right recall.

> No matter how many times I tell some LLM I want it to ask clarifying questions to provide better answers, it just won't You're telling me there's a modern frontier model that refused to ask clarifying questions after you told it to?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but yes, when it asks questions they are trivial disambiguation of mainly language, and never information seeking like you might expect when doing more than superficial investigation

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#394

Just sharing an anecdote: I was searching for a quote that I'd heard in an audiobook the other day. I just had the general paraphrase, and didn't feel like scanning through the chapters to go find it. This was a somewhat obscure source. Google had just straight garbage for me. The quote was political in nature, and I felt like the results were fighting general tone-policing filters and were tuned for recent events. o…

Same experience for me for a small plastic car part. Tried to find it via Google using multiple queries but nothing worked, ended up at generic SEO car part sites trying to sell me anything but the part I needed.

Asked Bing Copilot by describing the thing I wanted and got the exact part number and a link to a schematic on how it fits. Ordered it for just a few euros.

But recently it looks like Microsoft has been dialing back the AI answers on Bing. Maybe it got too expensive?

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#395
post #340

Just sharing an anecdote: I was searching for a quote that I'd heard in an audiobook the other day. I just had the general paraphrase, and didn't feel like scanning through the chapters to go find it. This was a somewhat obscure source. Google had just straight garbage for me. The quote was political in nature, and I felt like the results were fighting general tone-policing filters and were tuned for recent events. o…

A week ago, I was looking for the name of a semi obscure late 90ies computer game. Google could not help me given the description i gave Described it to ChatGPT, and we had a back and forth where I explained why the games it suggested me weren’t right, it eventually found the correct game (Nocturne) and was able to explain to me that half of the things I remembered from the game were just plain wrong, and that’s why…

I've had a conversation almost exactly like this too, about an obscure dos based 3d fighting game. And some pessimistic instinct tells me I should worry, like this capability will be optimized away in future versions. It's like that precise pang of satisfaction is tied to a jaded feeling that I can't trust it to last if it ultimately depends on infrastructure and incentives that will lead openai toward eating the world like Google did.

Getting ahead of myself to be sure, Google absolutely deserves to be stomped, so for now I guess we just ride out this wave.

Edit: I see elsewhere that others are converging on this idea and expressing it more clearly, namely that we may be in a honeymoon period.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#396
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have tried the same, and had ChatGPT utterly fail. > me: what's the relatively recent movie with a pig on the movie poster > gpt: The movie you're referring to is likely "Pig," a 2021 American drama film. It stars Nicolas Cage as a truffle hunter who lives alone in the Oregon wilderness. He embarks on a quest to find his beloved foraging pig after she is kidnapped. The film was directed by Michael Sarnoski . > me:…

The recent web search integration actually made ChatGPT much worse at this specific kind of search (I want a piece of media, but I only remember characteristics of it) If you explicitly tell it not to search, it's less likely to anchor itself in trying to search the web and going down rabbit holes. It also more likely to pause at times and ask the right questions to nudge.

Agreed, it has been much more valuable to me for it to rely on it's training than it's web searches.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#397
post #8

SEO ruined the web, guided by Google's ranking algorithm. Things will get even worse as scammy companies start flooding the web with LLM generated content pushing their products to bias LLMs to increase the probability of outputing their name for keywords related to their business.

Maybe, but Google in trying to stamp out seo spam just gravitates now to a few big company websites and shows them first because it no longer matters. Google is actively now trying to not even show you the organic results.

Even better for Google the worse the organic results are the more you need to rely on ads or some sort of ai snippet.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#398
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals are increasingly owned by insurance companies. The customers are not doctors but shareholders. That is why a cure is seen as a threat.

1) I was making an analogy. 2) I took at look at the most recent CMS data[0] I could find (from 2022,) and out of the top ten owners of hospitals in the United States, zero are payers. I only recognize about half of the parties in the 11-20 part of the list, but of the ones I do recognize, one is related to a payer. I can find no data to support your assertion that insurance companies are purchasing hospitals. They a…

The biggest examples would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh_Medic... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente.

I keep hoping my local university hospital system will offer such a thing.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#399
post #384
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A week ago, I was looking for the name of a semi obscure late 90ies computer game. Google could not help me given the description i gave Described it to ChatGPT, and we had a back and forth where I explained why the games it suggested me weren’t right, it eventually found the correct game (Nocturne) and was able to explain to me that half of the things I remembered from the game were just plain wrong, and that’s why…

This is great, never thought to use ChatGPT for this use. I have been trying to remember a game from extremely early memories where I was able to play it for a single weekend at an uncle's house in my youth when my parents were out of town. Bugged me on and off for the better part of a decade and I couldn't figure it out from describing it to google - the only thing I knew for sure were a few graphical UI screens sea…

masters of orion was fantastic!

MoO 2 is considered the best, III was a bit odd, the new one isn't bad apparently, gonna try it out.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#400
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree this is effectivity a 'honeymoon' period. Expect the SEO collective to shift focus on AI if the search approach becomes profitable in a few years. That said, given an "AI search" is estimated to be at least ten times [0] as expensive per query than traditional search, I hope you like ads. For those hoping to see that cost to go down, training costs for improved models have instead been going up . [1…

The kids running local LLM's then have the right idea. They can stop with the last, good dataset before Sellama (and AdGPT) poisoned the well.

Pure speculation on my part, but to play along, I suspect the models you mentioned will be a cheaper or free subscription option.

And again speculating, but given Apple's new emphasis on privacy, it might rhyme quite well to (1) make that into apple intelligence or even (2) make it fully local and, as a matter of principle, not dependent on external infrastructure.

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