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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#391

Post by epolanski »

mingus88 wrote: post #10
com2kid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. Sadly this is believable, I've asked to check out things like remote start and control of heating/cooling, and the sales…

Based on my anecdotal experience, another issue is that salespeople are not trained on the tech I worked on a feature for new vehicles and the company failed in part because buyers simply didn’t know those features were part of the vehicle. Dealers never set it up for the buyer and it wasn’t something many people would think to do on their own A salesperson isn’t going to jeopardize an easy sale by bungling some fanc…

Hmmm, not when it comes to car.

Salespeople are always trained on the latest features in the auto industry.

Even if they don't get in person training, all carmakers release 1 hour long videos showing the features of their cars for training purposes.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#392

Post by griomnib »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

The competition is human drivers.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#393

Post by red75prime »

xnx wrote: post #192
mensetmanusman wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in some small parts of the country. Tesla is dominating most everywhere else in the US. I definitely have no access to a Waymo but have been driven by FSD in heavy construction. (Do not own a Tesla myself).

It's possible that Tesla will have a massive jump in capability of their system, but currently it doesn't do any self-driving anywhere (e.g. you can't sit in the back seat).

ASS. Actually Smart Summon. You can sit in the back seat (but there's no point to, as the maximal distance to the destination and speed are appropriate only for parking lots).

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#394

Post by iknowstuff »

whoitwas wrote: post #327
boshalfoshal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will be Tesla. Regulatory pressures for them just lifted, and they move faster than all the other driverless companies, courtesy of Elon's fairly hardcore mode of operation. It may not be a perfect driving solution (probably 1:1 teleoperator to car in the beginning), but their go to market speed is undeniably better than Waymo et al. Waymo, Cruise, etc have to map out an entire region and have long rollout…

If each car has someone piloting it because the tech can't do it, maybe the tech is the problem? I don't see how cameras can succeed. Sunlight and fog are constant and not practical to work around with visual data. I'm glad there's regulation keeping those lithium incendiaries piloted by people. People are bad enough at driving.

Evs catch on fire less than ICE. Sunlight is not a problem. High dynamic range cams

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#395

Post by ZeroGravitas »

logifail wrote: post #372
SkyPuncher wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like drivers did not find the feature compelling and were not renewing. IMO, it's largely because BlueCruise (and all of the similar services) is not sufficiently better than the non-subscription driver assists. I have the option of BlueCruise on my vehicle and it's just not a compelling offer. * It only works on major highways. Beyond actual coverage, major highways are places where the standard driver as…

> it's just not a compelling offer I drive (and have driven) a fair number of rental cars due to travel, and I have to say I feel that way about many new vehicles in their entirety . So much vehicle tech is at best unimpressive and at worst positively in my way as a driver. > It's wickedly expensive We own two cars, 6 and 10 years old respectively, yet I've never felt less motivated to look at new cars than I do now.…

If you look at the lifecycle analysis of ICE cars, burning the fuel is the major contributor.

So if you drive an average amount with those cars you're not saving the planet by continuing to drive them.

In a well functioning system you'd be selling them on to people who drive very little and are old and set in their ways and replacing them with an EV.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#396

Post by purplethinking »

nojvek wrote: post #378
boshalfoshal wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will be Tesla. Regulatory pressures for them just lifted, and they move faster than all the other driverless companies, courtesy of Elon's fairly hardcore mode of operation. It may not be a perfect driving solution (probably 1:1 teleoperator to car in the beginning), but their go to market speed is undeniably better than Waymo et al. Waymo, Cruise, etc have to map out an entire region and have long rollout…

Tesla is a veeeeery distant second. Elon is full gung ho on vision only. They even removed ultrasonic sensors for parking. Tesla even removed radar. Vision only is Tesla’s bet. Meanwhile Waymo bets on jamming the car full of sensors to ensure it has superhuman 360 perception in all conditions with multiple sensor redundancy. Waymo takes safety insanely seriously. Tesla doesn’t care if 100s die in their car while on F…

Tesla is a distant first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYlQjINzO_o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZhER_-nhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNKYRWGgBc

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#397

Post by friendzis »

antupis wrote: post #363
ggjkvcxddd wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we forgetting that this only happened because they got in huge trouble with regulators and had to withdraw their cars from the street for like a year? I wouldn't take their statement at complete face value and don't see any reason for pessimism for Waymo.

Yup, there is zero chance that the market is too small. The only issues are whether a company can the technology to work and obtain regulatory approval.

Size of the market is for all practical purposes function of price. The competition to robotaxis is first and foremost humans. The major question is if robotaxi companies can provide the service at the cost of ubers *profitably*.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#398

Post by Shawnj2 »

logifail wrote: post #372
SkyPuncher wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like drivers did not find the feature compelling and were not renewing. IMO, it's largely because BlueCruise (and all of the similar services) is not sufficiently better than the non-subscription driver assists. I have the option of BlueCruise on my vehicle and it's just not a compelling offer. * It only works on major highways. Beyond actual coverage, major highways are places where the standard driver as…

> it's just not a compelling offer I drive (and have driven) a fair number of rental cars due to travel, and I have to say I feel that way about many new vehicles in their entirety . So much vehicle tech is at best unimpressive and at worst positively in my way as a driver. > It's wickedly expensive We own two cars, 6 and 10 years old respectively, yet I've never felt less motivated to look at new cars than I do now.…

As long as your old cars are like Toyota corolla/camry’s and not like giant gas guzzling SUV’s or trucks keeping them on the road is better than buying a new EV IMO. I think the current EV gen is kind of doomed because of the fact the next EV gen is going to have massive QOL features the current one doesn’t and waiting for a more compelling car is worth doing IMO

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#399

Post by iknowstuff »

ec109685 wrote: post #107
ra7 wrote: post #13

GM believed Kyle Vogt when he was hyping up their tech by having small, meaningless deployments in a dozen cities and promising $1B revenue by 2025. Then they had that incident and GM found out exactly how far behind Waymo they are. Waymo is now giving 175k rides every week and expanding to new markets every year. No other robotaxi company in the entire country giving rides to the public. Now they've gone back to wha…

There was so much noise about autonomous vehicles in SF from first responders and other officials. There was a segment that dismissed this as histrionics about self-driving cars. As soon as Cruise closed up shop, the complaints went way down.

My fav was when a bus driver killed a pedestrian but Muni blamed Cruise for his death because it was allegedly blocking responders. They managed to completely shift media blame from bus drivers to evil robocars.

https://sfstandard.com/2023/09/12/muni-bus-killed-san-franci...

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#400

Post by zeusk »

frankacter wrote: post #390
pelorat wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've seen, Tesla FSD would fail a driving test here in the EU within the 1st minute. Even the latest and greatest version behaves like a drunk teenager.

I'm not in EU so I can't comment if they have a special circumstance that makes there driving test different than elsewhere in the world, but "behaving like a drunk teenager" is not a descriptor I would use. I make use of Tesla FSD every day, 2 -3 times a day. Over the last few months I've had to engage (of my own choosing) twice, otherwise it is completely hands and foot off experience. I travel hundred miles a day…

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