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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#391

Post by GabrielTFS »

skywal_l wrote: post #284
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I seem to recall the leader of the last republic was De Gaulle. The first leader of the current republic was also De Gaulle. No, De Gaulle created the V republic with a military coup [1]. There were troops all over France, including paratroopers in Fontainebleau at 60km from Paris [0], while the "président du conseil" of the 4th republic transmitted peacefully the power to De Gaulle, to mitigate a civil war. Wikipe…

De Gaulle was called by the president of the 4th republic to counter the military insurgents. De Gaulle had sufficient charisma and status to calm down the military. When the military woke up again in 62 in Algiers, De Gaulle crushed them. You got it reversed.

Well, the explicit demands of the 1958 coup was to put him in place, and in that sense it did succeed - now, whether or not he participated in the planning of it is basically a mystery, but it does seem plausible (even though there is, to my knowledge, no proof of this) simply on the basis that he was the direct beneficiary of it.

Additionally, during the 1958 coup itself he did basically give his support for it in the sense that he explicitly said he was "ready to assume the powers of the republic" if asked for (which is what the leaders of the coup demanded be done).

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#392

Post by jmyeet »

always_imposter wrote: post #163

[flagged]

Because we've collectively been propagandised out of any sense of class consciousness. We don't have class solidarity with our fellow workers. Instead we see ourselves as Jeff Bezos-in-waiting, "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" [1]. We have been manipulated into hyper-individualism and division across pointless lines like race or gender identity as a means of preventing labor solidarity.

Depending on which country you're talking about, leftist momentum has neutered if not outright eviscerated. In the US, the New Deal Democrats dominated Congress for 60 years only to sell their souls to the same neoliberals and corporate overlords as the right-wing.

So now we have rising fascism because there's no counter-balance to capitalism and fascism is, depending on who you listen to, either the political wing of capitalism or it's simply capitalism in crisis.

People from the 1930s and 1940s are still alive yet here we are again. The Red Scare did unimaginable damage to our society.

So this isn't new. It's simply the culmination of a 50+ year long project.

[1]: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/328134-john-steinbeck-once-...

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#393

Post by HPsquared »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #263
ANewFormation wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt this has anything to do with anybody outside of South Korea, but this is precisely the sort of man adversarial states would want. Think about what's going to happen next! You have an extremely unpopular leader trying to sieze power by force, presumably soon banning opposition parties and more. It's going to create extreme discontent at the minimum, and civil war at a maximum. And once he's eventually overthro…

> You have an extremely unpopular leader trying to sieze power by force, presumably soon banning opposition parties and more By this logic America won when Assad won the Syrian civil war. In geopolitics, power trumps popularity.

Very ironic given the ruling party in SK is called "People Power".

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#394

Post by busterarm »

sofixa wrote: post #324
dmix wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be some rule on the internet where if some geopolitical thing happens anywhere in the world at least one person will blame Russia.

[flagged]

At the same time, they're spread thin and their influence is actually waning.

A lot of African countries that kicked western forces out and started working with Wagner Group are now courting the US Military to come back in because Wagner has been getting their asses kicked by insurgent forces all across the continent.

Because of current alliances though it does very much feel like we're in the middle of a global armed conflict if you squint hard enough. It's just all being fought by proxies for now.

France is in the middle of losing the last of its colonial empire and Russia & China are trying to muscle in to fill that void, with varying success.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#395

Post by jamal-kumar »

setopt wrote: post #244
coldtea wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speakers over 40 all around the world use that. And when emojis are not supported (like in an plain text file meant to be read on people's terminals, or iirc here on HN too), it makes sense for people under 40 too.

They might have meant writing :-) instead of :), while I think you’re talking about

Yeah specifically with that hyphen nose. I have like three friends who all do that and they all meet that description it's hilarious

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#396

Post by anon291 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #377
anon291 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was after domestic travel. It's martial law because your basic freedom of movement within the country was abridged without a trial or legal proceeding or any crime. I don't watch youtube and don't know what rumble is. For those of us not terminally online, just witnessing reality is shocking enough.

> It's martial law because your basic freedom of movement within the country was abridged without a trial or legal proceeding or any crime You're describing a suspension of habeus corpus , not martial law. (And even then, not accurately. Curfews have customarily been enacted for short periods of time without being considered a violation of due process.)

> short periods of time

15 days to slow the spread was widely supported.

Then it turned into two years (three years?) and people saw right through it.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#397

Post by ANewFormation »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #263
ANewFormation wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt this has anything to do with anybody outside of South Korea, but this is precisely the sort of man adversarial states would want. Think about what's going to happen next! You have an extremely unpopular leader trying to sieze power by force, presumably soon banning opposition parties and more. It's going to create extreme discontent at the minimum, and civil war at a maximum. And once he's eventually overthro…

> You have an extremely unpopular leader trying to sieze power by force, presumably soon banning opposition parties and more By this logic America won when Assad won the Syrian civil war. In geopolitics, power trumps popularity.

Assad had majority approval prior to the war [1] (can't find any more recent adversarial polls, which may be telling) and his family has been in power for decades. The comparison is inappropriate.

It's more akin to saying that states adversarial to the US won after the CIA overthrew a popular secular democracy in Iran, and installed a extremely unpopular puppet monarchy that was obseqious to the US.

In general maintaining power without relatively widespread support is quite difficult - probably even more so in the digital era which makes conspiracies so much easier to organise.

[1] - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrian...

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#398

Post by tzs »

anon291 wrote: post #304
kube-system wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't even true then. The COVID lockdowns were child's play compared to the abuses of freedom in the US's past, and they're a mere suggestion compared to the lockdowns in other places around the world. Anyone who thinks the government asking you sternly to "please stay inside" is an abuse of power must have fallen asleep in American history class. Or have never talked to their grandparents about politics in the p…

If something has to be worse than slavery in order to qualify as an abuse of freedom, then nothing is going to qualify ever. > Anyone who thinks the government asking you sternly to "please stay inside" is an abuse of power American states jailed pastors, fined churches, and charged individuals with violations of 'laws' against things like worshipping together or assembling. > must have fallen asleep in American hist…

COVID wasn't the first epidemic or pandemic that the US has dealt with, and similar measures were taken in many of those.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#399

Post by aurareturn »

NickC25 wrote: post #372
aurareturn wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the need for advanced chips would prevent China from using its military on Taiwan. If anything, the US-led blockade of advanced chips to China will make it more likely for China to use force. If China can't get their hands on the most advanced TSMC chips, then why would they let the US do so and get too far ahead in AI? Both can't have them then.

If China so much as touches Taiwan, all the TSMC fabs will explode. They are all already rigged to do so. The Taiwanese will burn their island to the ground before they let the CCP get their hands on Taiwan.

No, they aren't rigged to explode. And no, the Taiwanese won't burn their island to the ground.

So much propaganda.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#400

Post by petesergeant »

happytoexplain wrote: post #238
petesergeant wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes brother, that was my point, wrt to the text I quoted

I read it the same way the parent did - can you clarify?

There’s not usually much space between consensus Western opinion (when there is one) and AP editorial stance, so if they think he’s a loon, it’s safe to assume most in the West will too. “Unsympathetic towards” does not mean “biased against”
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