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We're forking Flutter

flutterfoundation.dev

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Re: We're forking Flutter

#391

Post by brainless »

dietr1ch wrote: post #388
1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

Seems to me that as projects mature they require less effort too. It's hard to account for that since Python started in 1989, it's older than Linux and it has a more narrow scope.

Python doesn't have a narrow scope. At least compared to Flutter. It's in so many places, from Linux installers, to medical, aerospace, math,... and finally the web (which is probably what we hear about the most).

Re: We're forking Flutter

#392

Post by drdaeman »

int_19h wrote: post #333
knifie_spoonie wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, I recognise that, a. most people just don’t care about platform idioms This is the big one. HN commenters are not representative of the average user. You'd have to specifically point out the differences for them to even notice, and even then they simply don't care.

Casual users don't care about the app "looking wrong". They do care about the app not working like other apps on their phone, though.

Casual users do care about app behaving wrong, though.

If you can't copy or paste things, or if the navigation is backwards, or if the calendar looks weird etc etc - it all causes some minor frustrations, when things don't behave as user wants them to behave.

They don't know what "native" means, obviously - they don't have that knowledge. They just know crappy apps from well-behaving apps, because they have a frame of reference (vendor-supplied native apps).

Re: We're forking Flutter

#393

Post by wruza »

nox101 wrote: post #280
divan wrote: post #120

> We describe Flock as "Flutter+". In other words, we do not want, or intend, to fork the Flutter community. Flock will remain constantly up to date with Flutter. That was the first fear when I saw the title - splitting community and having two incompatible versions. Good to see it addressed in the post. The second was just a fear of how it would complicate the development process, but it seems to be a drop-in replac…

flutter's custom canvas render on web means so much of the web stops working or is slow. type anything non ASCII like an emoji or CKJ and eat while it downloads a font. No other pages do this. Text fields are missing all the standard context menu options like define, translate, etc... Things that would be selectable on any other page are not, etc....

This. They can have all the deviations they want, but “input core” must be native. If a framework ignores it, users will notice and frown upon it immediately.

When flutter came out publicly, first I thought no way it can get away with custom everything. But it turned out some developers don’t care about that at all.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#394

Post by FredPret »

brainless wrote: post #391
dietr1ch wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me that as projects mature they require less effort too. It's hard to account for that since Python started in 1989, it's older than Linux and it has a more narrow scope.

Python doesn't have a narrow scope. At least compared to Flutter. It's in so many places, from Linux installers, to medical, aerospace, math,... and finally the web (which is probably what we hear about the most).

But those are modules added on by developers other than the 50 core devs.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#395

Post by p_l »

deergomoo wrote: post #215
divan wrote: post #120

> We describe Flock as "Flutter+". In other words, we do not want, or intend, to fork the Flutter community. Flock will remain constantly up to date with Flutter. That was the first fear when I saw the title - splitting community and having two incompatible versions. Good to see it addressed in the post. The second was just a fear of how it would complicate the development process, but it seems to be a drop-in replac…

> Most people don't realize how many apps written in Flutter they use daily, simply because it's impossible to tell You can't be serious. Maybe on Android, but on other platforms—especially iOS—they stick out like a sore thumb. A number of them just look like Material Design Android apps awkwardly transplanted over, but I know that's down to the developer so I won't hold that against Flutter. But scrolling through th…

Just like a lot of the "web application packaged as mobile app" frameworks did in the past, except with ugly iOS styling that also completely mismatched the expected navigational patterns.

What's worse, there are new applications with custom look and feel that do the same navigational sins today

Re: We're forking Flutter

#396

Post by owens99 »

I invested quite a bit of time working in Flutter years ago. The team overpromised and underdelivered. Felt like it was all marketing fluff and I'd been duped.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#397

Post by zX41ZdbW »

1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

I have statistics about real team size behind open-source repositories, and it is exceedingly rare to be larger than 50: https://play.clickhouse.com/play?user=play#U0VMRUNUIHJlcG9fb...

For comparison, my open-source product has around 20..30 according to the monthly stats (I want these numbers to be higher, though): https://play.clickhouse.com/play?user=play#U0VMRUNUIHRvU3Rhc...

Re: We're forking Flutter

#398

Post by awinter-py »

divan wrote: post #120

> We describe Flock as "Flutter+". In other words, we do not want, or intend, to fork the Flutter community. Flock will remain constantly up to date with Flutter. That was the first fear when I saw the title - splitting community and having two incompatible versions. Good to see it addressed in the post. The second was just a fear of how it would complicate the development process, but it seems to be a drop-in replac…

it's possible to tell

Re: We're forking Flutter

#399

Post by nmfisher »

pzo wrote: post #128
Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #52

>But, sadly, trying to work with the Flutter team delivers a different reality. While some developers have had success working with the Flutter team, many other developers have found it frustrating, if not unworkable. I'd love to see some examples. I've had my pull request merged in a fairly quick amount of time - less than one release cycle, which is what matters here. Also frankly, nobody forking Flutter will be ne…

> Also frankly, nobody forking Flutter will be nearly skilled enough to work on the Flutter engine (Impeller). For me its so weird they ditched google/skia to develop Impeller in Dart from scratch in the first place. If skia was not ready they could move just 1-2 developers to Skia team to collaborate with them. Now they want to even write their own 3d rendering lib based on Impeller (flutter_gpu, flutter_scene) even…

As someone who has slowly been writing Dart/Flutter bindings for Filament[0] over the last couple of years, I agree the internal 3D engine was a bit of a strange choice of priorities.

[0] https://github.com/nmfisher/thermion

Re: We're forking Flutter

#400

Post by lolinder »

malkia wrote: post #364
1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

Python is an engine, flutter is the whole car.

If Flutter is a car, Python is at least four different models of car, plus three models of light truck and one airplane.

The scope of Python's standard library is just enormous.

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